Post by fausto K February 16, 2015 (1 of 28)
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If one is to believe /showthread/128381/128402/y#128402 (post 5/16), it appears that all these titles below (most of them pre-digital, and all of them pre-high res) and myriad more are utterly pointless (bar the occasional multichannel, if you're so inclined). If you listen to stereo only or if the SACD is stereo-only, stick to the CD (if they exist), as there is no more content on these SACDs than on their CD counterparts. Despite all these SACDs sounding incredible in stereo (bar a few, perhaps), according to "the hard measurable facts", guess what...they don't (or at least not ANY better than the CD)! If you think otherwise, you've got cloth ears. We've been duped on a cosmic scale! Let's dump all these and many more.
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra etc. - Reiner Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra, Miraculous Mandarin - Boulez The Beach Boys: Pet Sounds Beethoven, Bruch: Violin Concertos - Grumiaux Beethoven: String Quartets Op. 18 No. 6, Op. 59 No. 1 - Quartetto Italiano Beethoven: String Quartets Op. 59 Nos. 2 & 3 - Quartetto Italiano Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 - Kleiber Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Kleiber Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Karajan Big Star: #1 Record/Radio City Bruckner: Symphony No. 3 - Kubelik Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 - Böhm Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 - Wand Bruckner: Symphony No. 7 - Wand Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Schuricht Bruckner: Symphony No. 8 - Böhm Bruckner: Symphony No. 9 - Wand Bryan Ferry: Boys & Girls Can: Can Can: Ege Bamyasi Can: Flow Motion Can: Future Days Can: Landed Can: Monster Movie Can: Rite Time Can: Saw Delight Can: Soon Over Babaluma Can: Soundtracks Can: Tago Mago Can: Unlimited Edition Dead Can Dance: Aion Dead Can Dance: Dead Can Dance Dead Can Dance: Spleen and Ideal Dead Can Dance: The Serpent's Egg Dead Can Dance: Within the Realm of a Dying Sun Debussy: Orchestral Works - Haitink Depeche Mode: Music For The Masses Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms Genesis: Invisible Touch Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue - Fiedler The Grateful Dead: American Beauty The Grateful Dead: Workingman's Dead John Coltrane: Blue Train John Coltrane: Coltrane John Coltrane: My Favorite Things Mahler: Symphony No. 5 - Haitink Mahler: Symphony No. 8 - Haitink Miles Davis: Bitches Brew Miles Davis: Bitches Brew Miles Davis: Dark Magus Miles Davis: In A Silent Way Miles Davis: In A Silent Way Miles Davis: Live-Evil Miles Davis: On The Corner Nick Drake: A Treasury Peter Gabriel: Passion - The Last Temptation of Christ Peter Gabriel: Plays Live (Highlights) Peter Gabriel: Security Peter Gabriel: So Peter Gabriel: Us Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here Pixies: Bossanova Pixies: Doolittle Pixies: Surfer Rosa Pixies: Trompe Le Monde Boulez Conducts Ravel Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe - Munch Boulez Conducts Ravel Roxy Music: Avalon Roxy Music: Roxy Music Roxy Music: Stranded Roxy Music: For Your Pleasure Schubert: Die schöne Müllerin - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau Schubert: Schwanengesang - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau Schubert: Winterreise - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau Simple Minds: Once Upon a Time Steely Dan: Aja Steely Dan: Gaucho Richard Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra, Ein Heldenleben - Reiner Stravinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps - Boulez Toto: Toto IV The Plastic People of the Universe: Egon Bondy's Happy Hearts Club Banned
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Amon Ra doesn't have a clue.
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The Pentatone discs are putting quad releases out - no CD can provide this playback facility.
However, it is not obvious why any analogue master from (say) the 1960s should be better preserved (irrespective of the quality of the actual recording itself) than any digital recording.
Therefore I sit on the fence or, perhaps more accurately, on both sides of the fence. Yes - it's uncomfortable!
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Post by fausto K February 16, 2015 (4 of 28)
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just to be clear: I'm not claiming that anything *recorded* on analogue tape is better than anything *recorded* digital, even redbook digital. Far from it. What I find disputable is AmonRa's repeated claim that it is pointless to transfer analogue tape to SACD, because its sonic content just doesn't warrant issuing on the SACD format. The fact is that many (if not all) of the discs I mentioned do sound infinitely better than their redbook counterparts: greater dynamics, more presence, more ambience, more clarity, less if at all fatigue-inducing and so on and so forth. And I'm not alone in this. There must be more to it than AmonRa is claiming are the "hard measurable facts". And I bet he hasn't done any actual comparative listening study for any arbitrary disc I mentioned. Just pointing to a set of measurements on paper won't do.
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Post by AmonRa February 16, 2015 (5 of 28)
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If the same transfer/master is used for both CD and SACD I see no reason why they would not sound the same. I have never heard or read about a properly conducted double blind test where CD and SACD could be told apart. Even less probable if the used material is much less than RBCD in quality.
The biggest complaint against the Meyer & Moran CD versus SACD test was that most disks were transfers from analog tape which was not good enough to show the clear difference CD and SACD were supposed to have. Then on the other hand (often the same people) demand tape transfers on SACDs because the difference is so easy to hear. Something does not add up.
Naturally wishful thinking CAN actually change the way we hear, that has been noticed in some trials.
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I think the SACD format does not limit or compromise the original recording the way RBCD can, especially if the SACD transfer is via DSD. I own several of the same recordings on both SACD and RBCD, and every one sounds superior on SACD: Warmer, more detailed, greater depth, more ambience, you name it. The differences are far from subtle, too. As far as analog sources go, if it's a pre-1990s PCM, I usually prefer analog, as it sounds warmer and simply more realistic, at least for strings and brass.
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Post by rammiepie February 16, 2015 (7 of 28)
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And IMHO the most important issue is the playback equipment utilized for playback of the various formats.
AmonRa has been on the rampage about $30 DVD~R transports and how they 'accurately' convey the info to the DACs in PERFECT bit for bit fashion (after all they're only 1s and 0s and any computer can decipher those).
Let AmonRa be content with RBCD.....that's certainly his pergovative but don't be preaching to the masses that RBCD is superior to SACD, DVD~A, BD~A based on some crazy blind tests, et alia, or some cockamamie theories regarding RBCD is good enough for ALL analogue sources.
Has AmonRa ever discussed the brickwall filters affecting RBCD playback above 20khz? Nay and yet analogue has measured frequencies extending to well over 20khz.......
In closing, we are posting on SA~CD.net for a specific reason. We love the format and we love what it can accomplish even with old analogue sources.
As always, To EACH his OWN!
And BE WARNED, AmonRa: If you continue to pursue your anti analogue rants, to quote from Nancy Sinatra/Lee Hazelwood's pop ditty: "These Boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do, and one of these days these boots are going to walk all over YOU!" http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&qpvt=Images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1
BTW, it sounds wonderful on SACD Nancy Sinatra: Super Audio Best from the original ANALOGUE masters!
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Post by Lute February 16, 2015 (8 of 28)
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Polly Nomial said:
The Pentatone discs are putting quad releases out - no CD can provide this playback facility....
Therefore I sit on the fence or, perhaps more accurately, on both sides of the fence. Yes - it's uncomfortable!
Agreed.
And... With the prices they are charging for the 2-ch stereo only reissues, it might be a good idea to be a little skeptical.
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Post by Marpow February 16, 2015 (9 of 28)
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Post by rammiepie February 16, 2015 (10 of 28)
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Lute said:
Agreed.
And... With the prices they are charging for the 2-ch stereo only reissues, it might be a good idea to be a little skeptical.
Brett, I have the two disc Pentatone Pinchas Zukerman Bach Brandenburg Concertos 1~6 DGG QUAD SACD reissues Bach: Brandenburg Concertos - Zukerman and in terms of SQ and packaging.....a beautiful presentation.
And under $20....delivered.
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