Post by pacwin June 16, 2012 (1 of 19)
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Thanks. The MTT video essay is priceless.
As to 10 channel aurophonic sound, I am sure that there are many discussions world wide on the next stages of multichannel sound. But, what is lacking, of course, is a unified standard and equipment versatile enough to easily implement it and play it back in the home. What player or PC configuration does 2L have in mind to play this back, I wonder? We have neither at this moment, unless you wish to make a change to the 8 channel analog-out wiring interconnections at the player compatible with this one disk and possibly MDG 2+2+2, as well. But, what do you use as a controller and master volume control for 10 channels? You will, of course, have to reconnect again for the vast majority of Mch disks, both SACD and Blu-ray.
This approach differs from others out there in being completely devoted to an added height dimension. Other approaches do that but also add channels - extra wide front channels - that expand the horizontal dimension - synthetically at the moment in realizations in consumer products. So, even if one is to add more speaker/amp channels to one's system, where to put them?
Where this all will lead is anyone's guess, as there are many competing proposals and prototypes, including this one. I would be willing to bet there will be a new "super" Blu-ray medium eventually that will offer higher video resolution and more discrete channels than today's disks. That will likely define the new standard, and consumer electronics to use it will, no doubt, follow quickly once the standard is settled. But, I am doubting we will see such a development for at least 5 years or more. And, incidentally, today's 7.1 channel standard is still vastly underutilized by available disks even 5 years after Blu-ray was crowned king in the format wars. No big deal because added back surround channels in going to 7.1 from 5.1 do not add that much sonically.
But, you have to hand it to 2L. They are never afraid to expand the envelope of possibilities. Will their approach lead the way to becoming the next standard? I doubt it. The movie, not the music, business will likey decide and have control over when and how this will all play out. I am certainly not against such a development, and I will be curious, though.
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Post by jeff3948 June 23, 2012 (3 of 19)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Thanks. The MTT video essay is priceless.
...
But, you have to hand it to 2L. They are never afraid to expand the envelope of possibilities. Will their approach lead the way to becoming the next standard? I doubt it. The movie, not the music, business will likey decide and have control over when and how this will all play out. I am certainly not against such a development, and I will be curious, though.
Wow. The new 9.1 system's height depiction would reproduce true 3 dimensional space for the first time. It would probably sound absoultely wonderful. The problem for me is cost. From 2007 through the end of 2008 I sold many old CDs and stereo equipment in order to save up for a new Denon receiver and Denon Universal player and a new set of 5 speakers plus a sub-woofer in order to play SACDs in true 5.1 multi-channel. Now, in order to fully utilize the 9.1 setup I would have to buy a 9.1 receiver, a Blu-Ray Universal player (so I can still play my SACDs and DVD-A discs and buy 4 additional speakers (which would be very difficult to match my current speakers becasue they are now discontinued). Selling my current receiver and universal player would not come close to covering the cost. I have several MDG's 2+2+2 SACDs but never got around to buying another pair of speakers. Also, switching the cords just to listen to a couple of MGD 2+2+2 SACDs would be a lot of trouble for me since I'm handicapped. So your point of how to set this up is understandable too. But cost is the major issue for me. Plus, it would be nice to have an agreed upon standard that everyone followed.
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Post by steviev June 23, 2012 (4 of 19)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
But, what is lacking, of course, is a unified standard and equipment versatile enough to easily implement it and play it back in the home. What player or PC configuration does 2L have in mind to play this back, I wonder? We have neither at this moment, unless you wish to make a change to the 8 channel analog-out wiring interconnections at the player compatible with this one disk and possibly MDG 2+2+2, as well. But, what do you use as a controller and master volume control for 10 channels? You will, of course, have to reconnect again for the vast majority of Mch disks, both SACD and Blu-ray.
I already have seven speakers and a subwoofer connected on my rig. I notice that my Aventage-1000 has two more speaker connections, left and right, for something called "Front Presence." That means I have a total of 9 speaker connections and two subwoofer connections possible. I'm guessing that this new 9.1 Blu-Ray from 2L will use these "Front Presence" speakers along with the more typical fronts, center, rears, and surround back speakers.
Since I already made the effort to build a 2+2+2 rig for MDG discs, and since I have unused speakers and speaker wire gathering dust in the closet, I will be building a 9.1 system, assuming the connections work as I outlined/speculated above.
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Post by Luong June 23, 2012 (5 of 19)
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steviev said:
I already have seven speakers and a subwoofer connected on my rig. I notice that my Aventage-1000 has two more speaker connections, left and right, for something called "Front Presence." That means I have a total of 9 speaker connections and two subwoofer connections possible. I'm guessing that this new 9.1 Blu-Ray from 2L will use these "Front Presence" speakers along with the more typical, fronts, center, rears, and surround back speakers.
Since I already made the effort to build a 2+2+2 rig for MDG discs, and since I have unused speakers and speaker wire gathering dust in the closet, I will be building a 9.1 system, assuming the connections work as I outlined/speculated above.
The main problem for me here is finding the AURO-3D decoder. I don't know which pre/pro or receiver has it. Kal Rubinson does not know either. Is this decoder available for home use? on what brand / model?
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Post by Lindberg June 24, 2012 (6 of 19)
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Luong said:
The main problem for me here is finding the AURO-3D decoder. I don't know which pre/pro or receiver has it. Kal Rubinson does not know either. Is this decoder available for home use? on what brand / model?
It's safe to say that our implementation of 9.1 is somewhat ahead of the commercial market. The first disc players and receivers to implement the Auro-3D decoder in the same manner as Dolby and DTS will not be available to the mass market before late 2013 thru 2014. There are dedicated decoders and DACs under development that can pick up their feed by HDMI from a Blu-ray player or computer play-back. These will probably be available sooner.
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Post by jeff3948 June 24, 2012 (7 of 19)
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Lindberg said:
It's safe to say that our implementation of 9.1 is somewhat ahead of the commercial market. The first disc players and receivers to implement the Auro-3D decoder in the same manner as Dolby and DTS will not be available to the mass market before late 2013 thru 2014. There are dedicated decoders and DACs under development that can pick up their feed by HDMI from a Blu-ray player or computer play-back. These will probably be available sooner.
Thank you Mr. Lindberg, That will give me time to start saving my money up, because it will probably take me 2 years to save enough money and to find 4 more matching speakers to add to my current set of 5.1 and a new player and receiver. I will probably do this because there is not a good concert hall near me and this would be the only way I could recreate a true 3 dimensional concert hall experience at home. And thank you for supporting the SACD format AND thank you very much for surrounding us with the orchestra in some of your recordings. I would absolutely love to here Vivaldi's Four Seasons on original instruments where the orchestra surrounds me. That would be the ultamate experience for me. Could you please do that for us on SACD 5.1?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Post by steviev June 24, 2012 (8 of 19)
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Luong said:
The main problem for me here is finding the AURO-3D decoder. I don't know which pre/pro or receiver has it. Kal Rubinson does not know either. Is this decoder available for home use? on what brand / model?
It seems that a firmware/codec upgrade to current Blu-Ray players would allow for decoding of 9.1 audio -- it's really just a software matter, isn't it? Because right now Blu-Ray is limited to 7.1 at 96/24.
Hey. wait. a. second...... Isn't this a SACD forum?
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Post by Chris June 25, 2012 (9 of 19)
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Interesting new development, but why not also try "Binaural" Dummy head recordings for headphone freaks like me, which could easily also be released both as SACDs and downloads and Blu Ray and any other hi res format?
It seems David Chesky has just started doing so.
The problem there is he often records music I am not that interested in.
Anyway,two high quality mics on a dummy head capturing things very close to the way our ears do. Simple and cheap. All you need is a good pair of headphones to recreate what was recorded?
No expensive multichannel amps or special height channel speakers needed.
Personally I am much more concerned with resolution and actual SQ than where sounds come from.But to me it seems, the easiest way to achieve both would be a Dummy Head?
But do Dummy Head recordings also capture the height dimension?
My two ears certainly do, so why shouldn't the two Dummy head mics do so too?
Correct me if I am wrong.
I know what Morten is trying to achieve with this new approach,I was definitely conscious of the height dimension when I stood in the middle of the orchestra at earlier sessions in Selbu.
In a church the height dimension is very much part of the acoustic signature of the venue.
And yes, that dimension is missing both via headphones and speakers even in mch.
But again,judging by the number of sites devoted to headphone listeners out there on the internet I think David Chesky has possibly caught onto something all the other labels including 2L?are missing.
I doubt that I personally will ever buy 9 speakers of the quality I would need to approach the SQ my headphones provide.
But Binaural? I can hardly wait to hear one in true hi res quality.
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Check out the Smyth Realizer headphone system, which delivers Mch via a pair of Stax stereo headphones. Reviewers say it works well if you can stand wearing headphones. I do not know why they would not handle height information, if calibrated with a sound system including height channels. But, they are restricted to 7.1 channel input via analog or HDMI.
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