Post by Bobpaule January 19, 2008 (41 of 58)
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Orpheus said:
HDMI is not for me and to me it sounds like a recipe for poor sound. Good sound is only going to come from well done separate components.
Now you got me all fired up and ready to go! I will try to be nice though.
Example, Oppo 980 transport bit for bit DSD via HDMI to a Texas Instruments DSD1791 in passthrough mode for one step D/A conversion in my Yamaha RX-V3800 in pure direct (no processing) then to Sherbourn monoblock amplifiers biwired front stage Paradigm Reference Studio 100v.2 and CCv.2 center with Athena dipoles surrounds. Belden 10AWG-silver-gold/spades DYI speaker cables. Hsu VTF3MK2 sub.
I wish i could take you to my basement and have you listen, you will become a convert overnight.
$600 interconnects are no cure for the enigmatic multistep conversion artefacts in $6000 players with 5.1 analogs out from 7 years ago, period. And the Yamaha/Oppo combo will set you back for $1200 authorized if you do your homework on AVSforum. Don't worry though, the classic gang on Audiogon will gobble up your old analog sources like hotcakes :)
Sorry, too much wine..."In Vino Veritas"
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Post by Orpheus January 19, 2008 (42 of 58)
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Bobpaule said:
Now you got me all fired up and ready to go! I will try to be nice though.
Example, Oppo 980 transport bit for bit DSD via HDMI to a Texas Instruments DSD1791 in passthrough mode for one step D/A conversion in my Yamaha RX-V3800 in pure direct (no processing) then to Sherbourn monoblock amplifiers biwired front stage Paradigm Reference Studio 100v.2 and CCv.2 center with Athena dipoles surrounds. Belden 10AWG-silver-gold/spades DYI speaker cables. Hsu VTF3MK2 sub.
I wish i could take you to my basement and have you listen, you will become a convert overnight.
$600 interconnects are no cure for the enigmatic multistep conversion artefacts in $6000 players with 5.1 analogs out from 7 years ago, period. And the Yamaha/Oppo combo will set you back for $1200 authorized if you do your homework on AVSforum. Don't worry though, the classic gang on Audiogon will gobble up your old analog sources like hotcakes :)
Sorry, too much wine..."In Vino Veritas"
I guess that you didn't read what Godzilla posted on this subject which backed up what I wrote.
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tda said:
Isnt this the Marantz cd14?
The cabinet surely is something like that. It's just not any known SACD model.
> The prototype on the pic you showed looks very cool. From which year is it?
Circa 1997/1998, I'd say.
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Post by trntbl January 20, 2008 (44 of 58)
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Bobpaule said:
Now you got me all fired up and ready to go! I will try to be nice though.
Example, Oppo 980 transport bit for bit DSD via HDMI to a Texas Instruments DSD1791 in passthrough mode for one step D/A conversion in my Yamaha RX-V3800 in pure direct (no processing) then to Sherbourn monoblock amplifiers biwired front stage Paradigm Reference Studio 100v.2 and CCv.2 center with Athena dipoles surrounds. Belden 10AWG-silver-gold/spades DYI speaker cables. Hsu VTF3MK2 sub.
I wish i could take you to my basement and have you listen, you will become a convert overnight.
$600 interconnects are no cure for the enigmatic multistep conversion artefacts in $6000 players with 5.1 analogs out from 7 years ago, period. And the Yamaha/Oppo combo will set you back for $1200 authorized if you do your homework on AVSforum. Don't worry though, the classic gang on Audiogon will gobble up your old analog sources like hotcakes :)
Sorry, too much wine..."In Vino Veritas"
Receivers are very poor preamps. Most of them haven´t got any true pre-amp-stage and the pre-amp outputs are just speaker-outputs with resistors to bring the level down. So if you use separate amps, your signal probably passes two amplification stages. I wish you could listen to my analog SACD-setup.
kristian
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trntbl said:
Really? The info is from sony website, which could be dated, of course. Any recent info would be appreciated.
It appears you may be right actually, at least for Europe.
For the US, the current typenumbers are SCD-XA9000ES, SCD-2000ES (http://products.sel.sony.com/es/products/microes_products_sacdplayers.html)
and SCD-CE595 while for the Japan the types are SCD-DR1, SCD-XA9000ES, SCD-XA1200ES, SCD-X501 and SCD-XE600 (http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/AV-HiFi/products/lineup.cfm?category=SACD)
Still I find it striking -- and, moreover, worrying -- that while i.Link has been replaced by HDMI as the favoured connection for DSD, Sony has yet to release an SACD player that provides DSD output via HDMI. In the meantime it has introduced an ES series AV receiver that’s prepared to handle the format.
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Post by toddao January 20, 2008 (46 of 58)
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Orpheus said:
I guess that you didn't read what Godzilla posted on this subject which backed up what I wrote.
I also felt that HDMI would not be a good way to go especially if it converted DSD to PCM like PS3.However after reading the January Stereophile Music in the Round column, it has certainly got me thinking along that way.
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Post by amatala January 20, 2008 (47 of 58)
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trntbl said:
Receivers are very poor preamps. Most of them haven´t got any true pre-amp-stage and the pre-amp outputs are just speaker-outputs with resistors to bring the level down. So if you use separate amps, your signal probably passes two amplification stages.
I agree 100% with this.
I cannot say if for sure the decoders in the players are better than those in the receivers - receivers will probably be better at decoding the DSD signal than entry level SACD players, however if you own a midrange $1500+ player you should probably stay analogue all the way.
There is however one thing I can say for sure: the weakest link in all setups built around an A/V receiver is the preamp section of the receiver which is very poor for all receivers, no exception.
All A/V receivers proudly announce the existence of a "pure direct" or "pure analogue" or "bypass" mode, however you want to call it. While it is great that you can avoid digital processing, these modes also bypass any analogue processing a true preamp would perform on the signal. It should be clearly understood that a proper preamplifier does so much more than simple volume control - soundstage depth and width, channel integration (to name only a few) are all controlled by the preamplifier.
If you have never listened to an analogue multi-channel preamplifier, you should try to find one - it is impossible to imagine how much more these preamps can do for your multi-channel music before listening to one...
If you can avoid using an A/V receiver (with or without HDMI 1.3) for your multi-channel music setup, do so without any hesitation!
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Post by swestbom January 21, 2008 (48 of 58)
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The Seventh Taylor said:
It appears you may be right actually, at least for Europe.
For the US, the current typenumbers are SCD-XA9000ES, SCD-2000ES (http://products.sel.sony.com/es/products/microes_products_sacdplayers.html)
and SCD-CE595 while for the Japan the types are SCD-DR1, SCD-XA9000ES, SCD-XA1200ES, SCD-X501 and SCD-XE600 (http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/AV-HiFi/products/lineup.cfm?category=SACD)
Still I find it striking -- and, moreover, worrying -- that while i.Link has been replaced by HDMI as the favoured connection for DSD, Sony has yet to release an SACD player that provides DSD output via HDMI. In the meantime it has introduced an ES series AV receiver that’s prepared to handle the format.
No Sony receivers in the U.S. can deal with DSD, the STR-DA5300ES is PCM only, the last one sold here that handled it was the 7100 using iLink.
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swestbom said:
No Sony receivers in the U.S. can deal with DSD, the STR-DA5300ES is PCM only, the last one sold here that handled it was the 7100 using iLink.
Sorry, that's not correct. The 3300, 4300 and 5300 all support multichannel PCM via HDMI but the 5300 additionally supports DSD.
Page 28 of the manual (http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/SonyStyleStorefrontAssetStore/pdf/STRDA5300ES.pdf) specifically states:
"This receiver supports DSD transmission (Super Audio CD), extended by HDMI ver1.2."
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Post by tda January 23, 2008 (50 of 58)
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The Seventh Taylor said:
Well, if we get started about prototypes we can go on for a while. There has also been a prototype player for professional use that had much of the internals of the SACD1000 but looked like a rack-mount version of a Philips DVD750 player (same display, cluster button, etc.) I'm not sure about the name but believe it was called the Philips SACD10PE. it was black. I don't have a picture of it.
It was sold to studios so they could start evaluating the results of their first multichannel SACD productions and is probably what lead the DVD FAQ http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.12 to write "Philips released a $7,500 player" although the date it mentions matches that of the SACD1000 ($2,000) rather.
What about this one though?
I have emailed sameone who works at Philips and who was part of the team of the development of SACD at Philips, he says the player on the picture is no SACD player. 24bit/96kHz has nothing to do with SACD he says.
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