Post by ealopez December 3, 2012 (2981 of 4131)
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Interesting... I just hear the opposite: wide and deep soundstage, with great dynamics, instruments way back in the stage!
Enrique
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Post by wehecht December 3, 2012 (2982 of 4131)
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I've just finished re-listening to this disc and simply don't understand Paul's comment. Once a proper playback level is established the sound of these two beautiful instruments is quite lifelike, balanced so truthfully that the experience is very much as if I were in the front of the balcony listening to Poltera and Stott performing in the 600 seat Perelman Theater here in Philadelphia. For what its worth I listen exclusively in multichannel and the appropriate playback level in my 2800 cubic foot room is 4-5 db below my usual level.
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Post by nucaleena December 4, 2012 (2983 of 4131)
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Thanks for your thoughts guys. I'll give it another try at various volume levels other than those used for my first few listens. Cheers, paul.
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Post by bissie December 4, 2012 (2984 of 4131)
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nucaleena said:
dear bissie, just a note about the Dvorak cello disc "Silent Woods". Lovely music well played. Sadly, i think that - IMHO only, of course, - this is the worst sounding BIS disc I've heard. It's too loud, up front and in-your-face and the result is a loss of dynamic range which robs the musicianship of Poltera and Stott of all subtlety in some tracks. The needle must have been in the red at all times when recording, and the result is near- or at- congestion, which is definitely not a BIS characteristic. Because this is such an anomaly for BIS, I am assuming that the problem here was with recording-partner GermanRadio, so my plea to you is "Please, no more joint ventures".
Dear Paul,
it is with some chagrine that I read this. There is a Swedish saying which translates something like: "no matter how you turn, you always have your arse behind you".
So I have been castigated for BIS products being recorded at a much too low volume, one has to crank up the dials much in order to hear anything etc etc. I always answer: BS, the top level is 0 dB, and that's that.
So it is in this case. The top level is 0 dB, period. And, lest you should blame anyone but BIS, the co-operation in this case consisted of us borrowing a hall from the Radio - the Producer/Engineer was Hans Kipfer, one of BIS's house producers. He is indeed the one that has the most direct sound of all our producers, but I have heard this SACD and don't at all experience the same things as you do, which doesn't mean at all that I don't respect your opinion. Obviously the dynamic range of a cello with piano is more limited than for an orchestra, and, since the music (cows over gate) doesn't allow for a huge dynamic range, the average level on the SACD (but so that the top is 0 dB, mind you) will appear to be (much) louder than usual. Basically I would have expected to be hailed to the sky - finally a BIS SACD that can be played without adjusting the playback upwards!!! - but, well, that was not to be.
Since I cannot relate to your experience, there is nothing further I can intelligently write about the matter (not that I presume the above to have been especially intelligent).
Bestest - Robert
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Post by Beagle December 4, 2012 (2985 of 4131)
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bissie said:
a Swedish saying...
"no matter how you turn, you always have your arse behind you"
"cows over gate"
Dear Bissie,
Love the pithy 'arse behind' folk-wisdom, but what does 'cows over gate' mean? Is that Swedenglish for "no use barring the door after the horse has bolted" and/or "water over the dam"?
Fanboy Beagle
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Post by nucaleena December 4, 2012 (2986 of 4131)
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dear bissie, many thanks for your comments.
I am not one of those who complains that BIS discs are recorded too low, - I have always liked your settings.
I have played this again in response to the other comments received (see above) and finally found a volume at which everything coalesces, and its the lowest volume I've ever used for a classical recording, including recordings of cello sonatas - about 25% of max setting cf my usual of 50-60%. At that setting I can listen without intimations of congestion, but I still here a more limited range than I'm used to from BIS and can't help but think that the volume settings are more at fault than thre nature of the cello/piano combination.
Anyway, it wont stop me buying BIS, - I have about 90 of your SACDS now.
best wishes, paul
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Post by emaidel December 5, 2012 (2987 of 4131)
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As a longtime fan of BIS recordings, I find it curious that Robert has been listing the sampling/bit rate on most recent recordings, likely in response to those who feel the recording simply cannot be appreciated without knowing this information beforehand. Robert has been bitterly criticized over the years for his recording and post-production methods, and despite lengthy explanations on his part, a handful of members still vilified him and BIS as a result. Perhaps listing the rates now is Robert's way of genuinely proving that he's been right all along.
I actually hadn't noticed that the sampling/bit rate had been posted on a number of BIS recordings I've purchased over the past months, and with my two most recent purchases (Dvorak's 8th -BIS # 1976, and The Alpine Symphony, BIS # 1950) I thought I'd try a little experiment of my own, that being, listening to each recording, and then trying to guess which rate was used.
Theoretically, a 96KHZ should sound better - even a whole lot better - than a 48 KHZ rate, no? Well, one would think so, but from simply listening, I guessed wrong. Both recordings sound superb, but if I were to give an edge to one over the other, it would be to the Dvorak 8th, with its lower rate.
I own many SACD's on which no sampling rate is listed. Now that when it is, the results don't necessarily correlate with what I might have expected, I care even less whether it's listed or not. As I've stated before, it's the end result that matters, not the path taken to get there.
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Post by bissie December 6, 2012 (2988 of 4131)
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Beagle said:
Dear Bissie,
Love the pithy 'arse behind' folk-wisdom, but what does 'cows over gate' mean? Is that Swedenglish for "no use barring the door after the horse has bolted" and/or "water over the dam"?
Fanboy Beagle
No, actually not, old fruit. I was showing off my prowess for British expressions. "Cows over Gates" is a British characterization for rural, pastoral, inoffensive music. I suppose that this expression conjures up the mental picture of a nice field, where cows are standing, regurgitating, with their heads neatly hanging over the gates, to which are leading the garden paths I am not leading you up on.
Robert
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Post by AmonRa December 6, 2012 (2989 of 4131)
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bissie said:
regurgitating, with their heads neatly hanging over the gates...
Something wrong with the grass...
Cows ruminating would be a nicer picture.
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Post by Kutyatest December 6, 2012 (2990 of 4131)
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bissie said:
No, actually not, old fruit. I was showing off my prowess for British expressions. "Cows over Gates" is a British characterization for rural, pastoral, inoffensive music. I suppose that this expression conjures up the mental picture of a nice field, where cows are standing, regurgitating, with their heads neatly hanging over the gates, to which are leading the garden paths I am not leading you up on.
Robert
That sounds as if it could describe Beethoven's Symphony No. 6!
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