DSD said:

Check out the name of this SACD: The Spirit of GAMBO

There are two viola da gamba players with harpsichord and violin.

I'm not sure Gambo is actually the name for multiple Viola da gamba players or is it? Does anyone know?

My best friend plays the viola da gamba it is likely I will get this SACD.

Teresa

...I was going to post an interesting subject but the "pills" havent kicked in yet...

Beagle said:

Dave,
Are you OKAY???

raffells said:

..Ive got some theories from my technical background but when someone starts telling me they have a tubed player which is a Chinese very average transist/ic design with a tube output buffer stage which means its acting as a non controlable tone stage then I begin to wonder if its worthwhile opening up the thread..wadda u think?...It will obviously need to be split into stereo/surround for opinions.The quality variation in surround must be close to alarming...
ps Im a former tube guy .,sitting with a Carlsbro amp just repaired on my lap.I used to have 100 watt OTL amps...40 years ago before solidstate designs left them for dead...
Dave...

DSD said:

That someone would be me. I actually have 2 SACD players the tubed Xindak SCD-2 SACD player that is my primary unit for SACDs. And a Sony DVP-S9000ES I use for DVD-Video movies, 24/96 DADs and to play SACDs when my Xindak refuses to.

My Xindak SCD-2 totally smokes my Sony DVD-S9000ES. The Xindak's sound quality is beautiful yet powerful with rock solid bass and brilliantly smooth highs, giant soundstange precise imaging and uncanny realism. The Xindak is also better at conveying emotion. My problems with the Xindak are mechinaical as I am getting "Undisc" more and more. Half the time I have to load a Hybrid SACD twice and if that doesn't work I turn it off and back on with the SACD in the player and if that doesn't work I turn it off and unplug it to reset it and play the SACD reluctantly in the 9000ES. It is now out of warranty and not much I can do while the problem is intermediate until it does it all the time. The big irony is it plays single layer SACDs perfectly every single time. And since I never listen to the CD layer you don't know how much I wished every one of my SACDs was single layer! Oh, Well.

Boy you really cut my player hard. What do you mean by "non controllable tone stage"? Is that because tubes don't all sound the same? Well here is a secret neither do transistors. If anything is a "non controllable tone stage" it's a transistor and they are not so easy to remove and replace, like swapping tubes unless your a modder with a soldering iron?

Also I have heard five theories about Op-amps in the Xindak SCD-2
1) There are no Op-amps.
2) There are Op-amps and they are ahead of the tube output.
3) There are Op-amps and they are not used for audio output.
4) There are Op-amps and they are used for the headphone output.
5) There are Op-amps and they are used as a control circuit.

I've had the cover off but I don't know what an Op-amp looks like or how to tell if it is in the signal path. So it will remain a mystery and I do not care! What I care about is the sound quality. And the SCD-2 has that in spades! Why else would I put up with it's mechanical problems?

FYI: Here a couple of glowing reviews of the Xindak SCD-2:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/xindak.htm

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue11/xindaksacd.htm

I also have a tubed pre-amp, though my power amp is solid state. Someday I will have a tubed power amp as well.

Happy listening,
Teresa

raffells said:

Now you see why I was reluctant to bring up the subject in a cold analytical way..I agree that transister or chips are not as easy to replace as tubes and having spent more years than I can remember on this subjectthan you I can assure you that nowadays i/cs outperform tubes in most every aspect and its sometimes the circuitry surrounding these that effect the sound.The tubes on this design just alter the sound rather than increase gain and do not have a control where you can alter the (microphonic) effect of the tubes..ie by pass or reduce overall.
The most important thing is you enjoy the sound that the player produces/I spent a short time rechecking the circuit on your machine and other information available on the net.You appear to have gotten a bargain.
Firstly ALL cd/sacd players use i/c compononts ie chips/op amps and these contain all the transisters you seem to have a downer upon.Yours uses AD712 as a gain stage prior to its zero output final tube circuitThis Tube buffer stage could be removed or bypassed as it only there to give that euphoric tube sound as well as matching up to the output of the player for a specific input. Similairly it uses the TIDSD1702 chip.Yes it also uses an op amp for its headphone stage.
It appears You like many others obviously like this characteristic and have doubled it up with a tube preamp.Most guitar musicians use this to colour there sound.Include my son however using tubes in amplifier driving a loudspeaker is a total different ball game.It has long been said that the output transformers on these designs decide the sonics.Hence I went OTL.Even tried non microfonic valve holders but eventually the limitations (long list) of such designs enforced me to give up years ago but I still keep in touch with the so called modern designers..Note the ECC83 tubes come with many different numbers printed on them and each type / brand has its own sonic signature..
As regards the "glowing tubes? reviews" including contradictions (needs 4 hours warm up against straight from the box sound)and errors and no measurements but mentions Burr Browns op amps and conversion of dsd to 96/24?.Very limited information.Doesnt even mention clocking of 48hz or whether / why downsampling to 44.1 which is probably why you dont like the normal Cd sound which the reviewers think is wonderfull.? This and your fancy for early LS and Mercury recordings (all tubed) say more about your listening preferences than anything.Im not sure how many more of the Mercurys you listed were done with tube equipment..not many...
It would also appear that Xindak who have discontinued this model and replaced it with a solid state design have an interesting policy of " If its broke " its not an original or it a grey import.. The reliability problem reading Tocs is almost certainly the Sony ( Philips in one review?) drive where lazer in a plastic holder focussing problem caused by heat.So its now probably on a limited lifeline and no point me suggesting which of the bog standard circuitry you should change....Capacitors resister and diodes for a start..sheilding tubes from RF is also worthwhile..D
H E T L// Dave

DSD said:

Dave thanks for all the information. I re-read the 24/96 quote as I thought it was CD that was upsampled as this was a claim by a website selling the SCD-2 that it upsampled CD to 24/96. But reading the quote now I am not so sure now, I guess I read right passed it based on the mental implant from the seller. My manual in English says nothing about upsampling CD or anything about 24/96 nor does Xindak's website. Xindak no longer even makes an SACD player, its all CDs and tube pre-amps and tube power amps.

The heat is a problem for tubed SACD players and I know a person who has actually installed a chip fan for the DSD chip, I have not tried this yet.

The tubes have metal tube holders over them is there anything else to do to shield from RF?

I believe my transport is Sony. The problem with a lot a chinese gear is they make revisions all the time and don't necessarly buy from the same venders especially as prices go up and down. This may be why one noticed a Sony transport and one noticed a Philips. There at least three different tube sets that come with Xindak, my are JJ E88CC tubes.

My plan with the two players is when the Sony DVP-S9000ES is out of warranty to get Allen Wright's Tube upgrade, he actually replaces the transister output with the tube output so it is true tube player. And then after I get that back I may consider tweeking out the Xindak. But I could do it the other way around as the Xindak is out of warranty.

Anyway things for the advice and suggestions,
Teresa

raffells said:

Shielding the DSD chip would be better than cooling it down?..If The metal is Mumetal great otherwise its probably there for localised heat sinking.
The Cd sound would be down converted from the 24/96 sampling clock ?.CT once did a write up of why it dont sound good..artefacts etc but the basic problem of cd brickwall filtering is still probably your major dislike ( and most other people).I noticed A W s comments re the odd way the balanced tube output from your machine.I couldnt fathom it out...Most preamps on the planet seem to use ecc83 tubes..Its older than I can remember or me ..No comments.
two questions...How do you play back your DVDA ? and why did you get two extremely different sonically machines.?...also very simple mod to your Xindak ,change the .10mf cap before tube stage to something that costs more than 5 cents.....D