Post by Lute May 24, 2013 (1 of 11)
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It is expensive and only in 2-channel, but... I am really enjoying this release. The original master tapes were used in this 2012 remastering. Very good sound!
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Post by Claude May 24, 2013 (2 of 11)
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Indeed, the pricing is reasonable, as it is with the Debussy/Martinon 4-disc set
Debussy: Orchestral Works - Martinon
But that one is now available as 24/96 downloads from HDtracks for less than half the price, and these files are probably closer to the master tapes than the PCM-based SACDs.
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Claude said:
available as 24/96 downloads from HDtracks and these files are probably closer to the master tapes than the PCM-based SACDs.
That's quite an assumption!
The SACDs are PCM-based from the master tapes.
The 24/96 downloads are PCM-based from unknown sources.
So how can you say that the downloads are closer to the master tapes than the SACDs?
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Post by Chris May 24, 2013 (4 of 11)
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Alexandre said:
That's quite an assumption!
The SACDs are PCM-based from the master tapes.
The 24/96 downloads are PCM-based from unknown sources.
So how can you say that the downloads are closer to the master tapes than the SACDs?
Maybe because there is only one digital conversion involved form analogue master tape to pcm download?
And most probably the source is EMI.
As is very often the case with these re-releases from EMI and Decca and DGG, I once again,happen to have the orginal LPs ,which are quite good yes, but they don't quite rival my modern hi res digital recordings of the same works on SACD or hi res downloads.
Dynamic range is rather limited compared to Luisi and Shipway to mention two modern competitors SQ wise.
And the EMI LPs are also rather obviously multimiked. Musically it is of course a different matter,well worth investigating.
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Post by Claude May 24, 2013 (5 of 11)
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Alexandre said:
That's quite an assumption!
The SACDs are PCM-based from the master tapes.
The 24/96 downloads are PCM-based from unknown sources.
So how can you say that the downloads are closer to the master tapes than the SACDs?
The download is not from an unknown source, but from the same 24/96 transfers made by the Abbey Road Studios.
From the HDtracks website:
"About the Mastering
Four engineers at Abbey Road Studios in London have remastered these historic EMI recordings from their original analogue sources for release in pristine hi-def. Between them, Simon Gibson, Ian Jones, Andy Walter and Allan Ramsay have many years of experience remastering archive recordings for EMI and other record labels. The process always starts with finding all of the records and tapes in EMI's archive in London and comparing different sources and any previous CD reissues. We consult each recording's job file, which contains notes about the recording made by the engineer and producer. For example, this sometimes explain why there is more than one set of tapes to choose from. All of the tapes are generally in good condition and we play them on our Studer A80 π inch tape machine, after careful calibration of its replay characteristics.
In order to have the best digital remastering tools at our disposal for the remastering, we transfer from analogue to the digital domain at 96 KHz and 24-bit resolution using a Prism ADA-8 converter and capture the audio to our SADiE Digital Audio Workstation.
Simon Gibson, January 2012"
The same procedure was described for the SACD series.
So there is a 24/96 PCM source used to make 24/96 FLAC files and converted to DSD for the SACDs.
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Chris said:
Maybe because there is only one digital conversion involved form analogue master tape to pcm download?
Claude said:
The download is not from an unknown source, but from the same 24/96 transfers made by the Abbey Road Studios.
Now, I understand.
Thanks for your explanations.
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Post by Links May 24, 2013 (7 of 11)
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I am guessing that none of these will even be "quad" .
Keep hoping that the RCA recording of
Alpine Symphony ~ Rudolf Kempe ~ Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
surfaces sometime in quad on SACD.
I seem to recall that there was a DVD-A of that now OOP.
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Lute said:
It is expensive and only in 2-channel, but... I am really enjoying this release. The original master tapes were used in this 2012 remastering. Very good sound!
As a single, single~layered SHM~SACD is going for $42(US), charging under $80 for 4 single layered discs is not outrageous.
The Martinon Ravel and Saint Saens (symphonies) single layered discs are absolutely superb and if the Strauss Orchestral music is indicative of this caliber of reproduction, then it's a bargain, indeed.
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Post by Lute May 24, 2013 (9 of 11)
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Links said:
I am guessing that none of these will even be "quad" .
Keep hoping that the RCA recording of
Alpine Symphony ~ Rudolf Kempe ~ Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
surfaces sometime in quad on SACD.
I seem to recall that there was a DVD-A of that now OOP.
I have the DVD-A version of this Alpine Symphony. While it is not terrible and even has a 4.0 surround mix, I definitely prefer this single layer SACD's sound...which is much warmer, more realistic and focused. The DVD-A is 24-bit / 48 KHz. And more importantly (according to the liner notes by Andy Walter), the DVD-A version was not taken from the original master tapes, but rather from an analogue "copy" of a 1/4 inch master tape that was in Dresden. And.. The DVD-A's 4.0 mix was not taken from an old quad recording. It was made for the DVD-A from the analogue "copy".
An interesting footnote... On the back of the DVD-A, it says, "This landmark recording has been remastered from the original analogue tapes by Abbey Road Studios using the latest audio technology." I am not accusing EMI of anything, but it just goes to show that you can't judge a book by its cover. ;-)
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Post by Lute May 24, 2013 (10 of 11)
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rammiepie said:
As a single, single~layered SHM~SACD is going for $42(US), charging under $80 for 4 single layered discs is not outrageous.
The Martinon Ravel and Saint Saens (symphonies) single layered discs are absolutely superb and if the Strauss Orchestral music is indicative of this caliber of reproduction, then it's a bargain, indeed.
A minor criticism of this release is the same thing you have mentioned about Japanese single layer SACDs... and that is... each disc could have been filled up a little more. (Although I might be wrong about this, it could mean that no compression was done.) Anyway... As you know, they are so literal over here!! ;-)
And... Like you, I am still waiting for some single layer MULTICHANNEL SHM-SACDs.
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