Post by lennyw March 7, 2013 (91 of 177)
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Post by Chris March 7, 2013 (92 of 177)
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Claude said:
DSD downloads are for early adopters who are willing to pay and experiment.
I held back quite long after reading about all the problems early adopters had getting their supposedly DSD capable DACs to actually play DSD natively. To my surprise the Benchmark DAC 2 HGC is basically plug and play with a mac computer. All I needed to do was go into special options in Pure Music and choose the Benchmark as a dedicated DSD DAC.
After that it automatically detects my DSD files and plays them natively.
And yes there is a difference.They sound more resolved more analogue and have more air and depth and sound even more tonally, timbrally real to me, than played converted to pcm 24/176.4.
Simply sublime with recordings like Channel Classics Mahler symphonies or Stravinsky's Rite and Firebird.
The only pcm recordings that sound almost but maybe not quite,as good as the Channel Classics pure DSD recordings to me now,are imho some of the orginal 24/192 pcm recordings from Acousence.
I really do hope that Pentatone too will start selling their pure DSD recordings as downloads asap!
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As you surmised on another post regarding downloads, Chris: The Future IS here but some of us still enjoy our physical discs at real world prices. Today, I ordered the 5 disc Martinon Ravel set from CDJapan, all single layered SACDs and the price per disc was $20 (US).
And I also love my POP/Rock/Jazz fix, as well, which is NOT served well by DSD downloads, at present.
Am looking forward to the DSD capable App from OPPO which Kal Rubinson is presently testing and as I do have a MAC computer with Quantum (high speed downloading capability), will play it by ear.
But happy you're enjoying the sound which DSD downloads presently afford you.
But at present, physical SACD discs (especially multichannel) still deliver quality at realistic prices.
And really surprised that SONY/BMG, which have supposedly DSD~mastered their vast catalogue, has not entered the DSD download market..........that, IMO, would really get the ball rolling.
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Post by lennyw March 8, 2013 (94 of 177)
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Chris said:
All I needed to do was go into special options in Pure Music and choose the Benchmark as a dedicated DSD DAC.
After that it automatically detects my DSD files and plays them natively.
And yes there is a difference.They sound more resolved more analogue...
Ditto the Teac. Installed driver and DSD capabilities in Foobar (on PC) and we were off. DSD natively played over USB. Comparing a couple of discs on my Sony 5400 to the same discs ripped via PS3 on the DAC, and I have to say (to my amazement) that the DAC may well have a slight edge! It's early days, so wouldn't want to be absolute about this, yet...
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Post by pvanosta June 1, 2013 (95 of 177)
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I am a new poster and consider myself an omnivorous audiophile (my collection spans 1000 years of music on 4 continents and on all conceivable media- RBCD, SACD, DVD-A, mp3, flac (16/22 up to 24/192), ape, aiff, etc...).
Until last week, I could not play DSD files natively. Then I bought the OPPO BDP-105, so I got curious and downloaded a few free DSD samples.
They played flawlessly through my OPPO from a USB drive and I loved how they sounded. So then I wanted more and now I had to pay and got similar sticker shock to some of the posters in this thread.
I still struggle to understand/accept that a download costs twice what a physical media goes for. No CD mastering/printing, no brochures/leaflets, no logistics of shipping/distributing, no retail middle men, etc...
It would seem to me that, if those boutique labels wanted to get the music heard, pricing it out of the market would be the wrong way to go about it.
I'll gladly pay $25 for a good album, but at $40-50 I will think long and hard before buying an album I'm not familiar with, which essentially defeats the purpose of getting me to discover new music. This last part is the key for me: I love discovering new music. I should not need to pay upwards of $40 to take a chance on an unknown artist playing unknown music. Perhaps, if the pricing was brought in line with physical SACD media (without the need for all that comes with said media), perhaps these artists would become less unknown and sales volumes might rise more quickly...
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pvanosta, DSD downloads are, shall we say, the new kid on the block and, as such, are priced to reflect this relatively new technology.
Paying $40~50 for a DSD download of an unknown artist is rather silly but DSD, as a technology, as are SACDs, remains a relatively ultra minute niche market in relation to MP3, RBCDs, Flac and Wave ........
Whether DSD downloading will ever catch on is unknown.
But for those who want and/or demand it........ one has to be willing, especially at this early juncture, to part with their $$$$$$$$. A simple case of supply and demand.
I am NOT one of those chosen few (and I DO have the new OPPO BDP~105)! I still buy physical discs in ALL 5" formats and have NO regrets about not downloading.
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pvanosta said:
downloaded a few free DSD samples.
They played flawlessly through my OPPO from a USB drive and I loved how they sounded. So then I wanted more and now I had to pay and got similar sticker shock to some of the posters in this thread.
I still struggle to understand/accept that a download costs twice what a physical media goes for.
Stop struggling ... just buy it on SACD. Problem solved.
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Post by hiredfox June 2, 2013 (98 of 177)
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rammiepie said:
pvanosta, DSD downloads are, shall we say, the new kid on the block and, as such, are priced to reflect this relatively new technology.
Too generous rammiepie, in my view they will be priced to see "what the seller can get away with".
There are always exploiters and regrettably there will always be people who will succumb to being exploited.
Surely the best thing to do is wait, pvanosta. Nothing is that important to you even DSD downloads. Think how many concerts that represents.
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hiredfox said:
Too generous rammiepie, in my view they will be priced to see "what the seller can get away with".
There are always exploiters and regrettably there will always be people who will succumb to being exploited.
Surely the best thing to do is wait, pvanosta. Nothing is that important to you even DSD downloads. Think how many concerts that represents.
I am not sure that greed alone is responsible for high download prices. One idea that has been advanced is that there is an expected amount of sharing of downloads among multiple audiophiles, as they have no copy protection. This reduces the number of potential sales, but prices are jacked up to compensate for this.
But, as I see it, the high prices are only going to create an incentive to fulfill the prophesy, and in a totally uncontrolled way. Wanna bet that many of the fairly sophisticated audiophiles who are interested in this type of material are not actively discussing forming informal clubs and other networks to share the cost and redistribute the files? I am not talking about commercial Internet distribution, which would be fairly easily detected and legally enjoined. I am talking about hard drive copies, which are fairly easily made in bulk, and where the distribution would be totally and undetectably under the radar. I think many upstanding audiophiles who are concerned about the continued success of the recording industry and are otherwise legally and ethically above reproach, will justify this piracy to themselves out of anger at the high prices.
We know that silver disks themselves are not perfect controls on this sort of thing. SACD has been hacked, but given the limited supply of PS3's with the correct characteristics to do the hack, I doubt that much of this is prevalent. I have not personally encountered any such hackers in my travels. But, copying a download is, in any case, a far simpler thing to do, requiring no special hardware or expertise. Plus, every downloader or file ripper has a huge incentive to protect his investment by creating an offsite backup via hard drive. Why not just give a copy to a friend to keep at his house in case yours burns down? Friend A to friend B, on to C, D, etc. each paying perhaps $100 for a 2TB hard drive capable of storing hundreds, if not thousands of recordings.
I hate to plant this idea in people's minds, but I think it would come about naturally and on its own even without me because the incentives are there. Downloading was fine for mass market, MP3 songs at under a buck apiece. There would not appear to be much incentive for large scale piracy at those prices. Full, hi Rez SACD albums at high prices look like a different matter entirely. In spite of all of the beating of the drums about downloading, I am not at all sure if I were a record producer that I would be permitting any downloading at all, frankly, at any price.. In a tiny niche market like SACD,
It could be a business killer.
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Post by hiredfox June 3, 2013 (100 of 177)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
I am not sure that greed alone is responsible for high download prices. One idea that has been advanced is that there is an expected amount of sharing of downloads among multiple audiophiles, as they have no copy protection. This reduces the number of potential sales, but prices are jacked up to compensate for this.
But, as I see it, the high prices are only going to create an incentive to fulfill the prophesy, and in a totally uncontrolled way.
etc
Very interesting commentary. Certainly hadn't occurred to me.
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