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Post by Chris June 6, 2012 (2 of 91)
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hiredfox said:
Spotted this on e-Bay. It's an auction so maybe worth a punt but remember it is stereo only.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marantz-SA-7S1-CD-SACD-Player-/261033133899?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3cc6c9874b
Decent price for a good SACD player. I have listened to it a couple of times and yes it is rather good. But not only has someone whose judgement I also rather trust, just reported that even pure DSD recorded material sounds clearly even "jaw-droppingly" better played via a much cheaper DSD capable DAC as a download than played even on a super expensive Meitner SACD player.
Food for thought ?
But I also already know from tests and comparisons I have done with very high quality equipment that the same holds true for pcm recorded hi res downloads I have compared to the SACD version of the same music.
The reasons to invest in expensive SACD players are becoming fewer and fewer for me personally.
For mch it may still be a rather different story and I might even get an OPPO 95 as a back up.
Just to be able to keep playing my 200 SACDs even though it is becoming clearer and clearer to me that downloads sound even better,and in some cases even a lot cheaper than the SACD too.
Last week during a Promo,I got several of the SFO Mahler symphonies in 24/96 hi res for €6,30 each.
The SACDs cost at least three times as much.
For me the future lies predominantly in Hi res downloads.
Here in Sweden it seems quite a few owners of super expensive SACD players are coming to the same conclusions judging by the number of High End Sacd players for sale at very reduced prices second hand online here in Sweden.
No offence intended,just my humble opinions and conclusions.
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Post by Claude June 6, 2012 (3 of 91)
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I think that with the increasing importance of downloads, pure SACD/CD players without DAC or file playback functions are slowly disappearing.
My main SACD player is still an old Sony SCD-XA777ES, and I'm in the market for a new player. But it would have to be a device with digital inputs and preferably file playback functions.
Even better would be a high end DAC that can accept DSD over HDMI, but such a thing does not yet exist (Mark Levinson has announced one for the end of the year). It would allow to use an inexpensive Blu-ray/SACD player (Oppo 93) as a drive for SACDs, while using the DAC for the DSD/analogue conversion.
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Claude said:
I think that with the increasing importance of downloads, pure SACD/CD players without DAC or file playback functions are slowly disappearing.
My main SACD player is still an old Sony SCD-XA777ES, and I'm in the market for a new player. But it would have to be a device with digital inputs and preferably file playback functions.
Even better would be a high end DAC that can accept DSD over HDMI, but such a thing does not yet exist (Mark Levinson has announced one for the end of the year). It would allow to use an inexpensive Blu-ray/SACD player (Oppo 93) as a drive for SACDs, while using the DAC for the DSD/analogue conversion.
For Mch diehards like me, there are no decent consumer-grade DACS yet that can handle DSD Mch, AFAIK, although Mytek is reported to be working on one. Even so, in my system, I am doubting any advantage to DSD via the DAC and subsequent analog input into my controller. It cannot apply DSP room EQ to Mch analog inputs, and in any case, that would require added A-D and conversion to PCM. My experience so far with my system and others with pure DSD to analog gives an overwhelming advantage to use of the room EQ using my player's HDMI output. So, for me, I am likely not going to be a good candidate for DSD downloads. PCM will be the preferred course for me, and my Oppo 93 does handle both disks and PCM downloads from a hard drive quite well already. Stereo downloads are simply not of Interest to me in any form.
Call me crazy, or my system or ears deficient. Whatever. But, I have failed thus far to experience the sonic nirvana allegedly provided by pure DSD to analog. Actually, the closest thing to a sonic miracle I have ever heard has been provided by DSP room EQ. I cannot envision doing without it. Everyone in my circle of audiophile friends wholeheartedly agrees. DSD downloads just do not seem to fit into our preferred scheme.
Incidentally, a good friend has a Sony 777ES gathering dust for several years, which was used via analog into an analog controller. It has been replaced by an Oppo 93 via HDMI into a digital controller using DSP EQ. He concludes the sound is far better that way. I have heard it and I agree.
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The Oppo BDP-95 supports SACD-Rs. SACD iso images burnt to a DVD-R. That is gonna be my next big purchase. With the nice Sabre DAC and the ability to play pretty much anything over USB or Esata and SACD-Rs, sorta eliminates the need for an external DAC.
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Post by tailspn June 6, 2012 (6 of 91)
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MattMan657 said:
With the nice Sabre DAC and the ability to play pretty much anything over USB...
It does? Agreed though, it's a fantastic player at its price.
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Post by Claude June 6, 2012 (7 of 91)
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Yes, but you'll have to burn the SACD images to DVD-R before being able to play them. The Oppo does not play SACD ISOs, even with the old firmware with ISO support. It's kind of like burning regular downloads (16/44) to CD-R. Inconvenient when lots of discs are involved.
With a Mytek DSD DAC you would be able to play the SACD ISOs on a PC and output DSD to the DAC. No need for a SACD-R.
As I have no intention of ripping my SACD collection to ISOs, the only DAC solution involving SACD and pure DSD is a DAC that accepts DSD over HDMI. I currently use a HDMI de-embedder to output 24/88 PCM from Oppo SACD playback to a DAC, which isn't bad, but a DSD solution would be closer to perfection.
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I just bought a dCS Puccini SACD player with digital inputs, clock input/output, software upgradability and digtial volume control. I feel very future-proofed.
It plays my existing (and growing) CD/SACD collection magnificently and will accept DSD files via the seperate dCS U-clock when the software upgrade is released. The other digital input I can use to connect a universal player for DVD-A/BD playback upto 24/192.
So whatever the future holds, the Puccini is ready for it. Players without inputs are fine, as long as you accept them for what they are and are prepared to buy into new hardware when downloads/file streaming becomes important.
The poster who said that downloads sound better than discs should not be so hasty, there are a majority who either think the opposite or hear no difference. It's all about accessibility, file payback may be the ultimate future, but right now there are so many SACDs to buy and CDs are cheap as hell. My dCS Puccini allows me to seamlessly move into downloads when the fancy takes me whilst still getting maximum performance from my SACDs.
YMMV.
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Claude said:
Yes, but you'll have to burn the SACD images to DVD-R before being able to play them. The Oppo does not play SACD ISOs, even with the old firmware with ISO support. It's kind of like burning regular downloads (16/44) to CD-R. Inconvenient when lots of discs are involved.
With a Mytek DSD DAC you would be able to play the SACD ISOs on a PC and output DSD to the DAC. No need for a SACD-R.
As I have no intention of ripping my SACD collection to ISOs, the only DAC solution involving SACD and pure DSD is a DAC that accepts DSD over HDMI. I currently use a HDMI de-embedder to output 24/88 PCM from Oppo SACD playback to a DAC, which isn't bad, but a DSD solution would be closer to perfection.
Yea that is what I was referring to. You use a program like ImgBurn, any disc image writer will do really, to take the SACD Iso and burn the image to a DVD-R. You are 100% correct though, the Oppo does not play SACD Isos or DSD files via USB or Esata.
I've heard great things about the Mytek. The only reason why I would not get one is because my bedroom system, which is what I use when the folks are using our house's main system, only has a 1st gen PS3, which actually is not that bad at all, but it of course does not compare to hardcore players. We have an Integra DPS8.3 in our main system that rocks but we gotta share the downstairs. So you could say a BDP-95 would fulfill all my needs with the burning of Isos to DVD-Rs.
Yep, I just learned this the other day. I was under the impression it only played up to 24/96 PCM stereo and 5.1, but I just found out via the Oppo BDP-95 owners thread on AVSforum that it will do 24/192 stereo and 5.1 via USB. For me that sealed the deal for me as my external HD has an E-Sata and USB port. USB to the Oppo and E-Sata to my computer to keep it updated. Best of both worlds.
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Post by Chris June 6, 2012 (10 of 91)
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Nagraboy said:
I just bought a dCS Puccini SACD player with digital inputs, clock input/output, software upgradability and digtial volume control. I feel very future-proofed.
It plays my existing (and growing) CD/SACD collection magnificently and will accept DSD files via the seperate dCS U-clock when the software upgrade is released. The other digital input I can use to connect a universal player for DVD-A/BD playback upto 24/192.
So whatever the future holds, the Puccini is ready for it. Players without inputs are fine, as long as you accept them for what they are and are prepared to buy into new hardware when downloads/file streaming becomes important.
The poster who said that downloads sound better than discs should not be so hasty, there are a majority who either think the opposite or hear no difference. It's all about accessibility, file payback may be the ultimate future, but right now there are so many SACDs to buy and CDs are cheap as hell. My dCS Puccini allows me to seamlessly move into downloads when the fancy takes me whilst still getting maximum performance from my SACDs.
YMMV.
Hello Nagraboy,
I am sure you are absolutely future proofed!
And I don't in any way want to take away your joy owning what is most probably one the best SACD player DAC combos that can be bought.
I'd love to try one myself.
But if you would ever be interested in comparing the SQ from a hi res download played via your Puccini DAC and the SACD of the same music, I would be very interested to hear what you think. If you are interested in comparing,choose both a pcm master recording and a DSD master.
One of several comparisons I did was using an MBL SACD player in roughly the same price range as your Puccini and to my surprise the download sounded better more resolved than the SACDs I had from the same masters.
Not only that, some of the recordings I used were recordings that I had actually attended and know what it sounded like live.
Although both my SACD players are good and clearly better than rbcd, but in my home system it is even more evident.
What if a 1500 US Dollar DAC actually not only seriously can compete with a High End SACD player costing 10000-15000 dollars or more, but possibly even outperform it?
I am only saying what if?
All I can say with any certainty is that my own pcm only DAC costing roughly 1500€, clearly outperforms both of my SACD players.
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