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flyingdutchman said:
Are your speakers extremely bright? They could be overly so, perhaps?
Possibly they are the overbright B & W 's both the metakl dome & diamonds I find are too bright and can cause listening fatigue
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Stuart said:
Last night, before reading your new post, I did try to audition some discs--one week after my initial, rather painful experiment with SACD--to eliminate any of the other possible causes of listener's fatigue mentioned previously in this thread (it was the Pink Floyd I was playing, I must have been a drunkard, I must have been physically/mentally ill, etc, etc). Surprisingly alert, healthy, and sober, I put on a copy of the highly acclaimed "Russian Violin Concertos" by Julia Fischer.
It might be a severe case of Meitner allergy. Have you tried any SACDs recorded with other A/D converters? Is the fatigue problem still present when you are listening to, let's say, new AP Nat King Cole SACDs?
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Post by Stuart June 4, 2011 (33 of 63)
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"Post by Disbeliever Today 12:49 pm (31 of 32)Are your speakers extremely bright? They could be overly so, perhaps? Possibly they are the overbright B & W 's both the metakl dome & diamonds I find are too bright and can cause listening fatigue"
My speakers are Paradigm Studio 10s.
"Post by audioholik Today 04:02 pm It might be a severe case of Meitner allergy. Have you tried any SACDs recorded with other A/D converters? Is the fatigue problem still present when you are listening to, let's say, new AP Nat King Cole SACDs?"
I'm such a newbie that I don't quite understand the question. I haven't looked at the recording or studio process that closely. Sum total of SACDs I listened to were: Pink Floyd DSOFTM; Beethoven's 9th by Haitink; Fritz Steiner's Rimsky-Korsakov for RCA; and then yesterday, the Julia Fischer Russian Violin Concertos, which might have been the only one recorded in DSD.
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I think all the Fischer discs were in DSD. Anyone know differently?
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Post by zeus June 4, 2011 (35 of 63)
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Disbeliever said:
Possibly they are the overbright B & W 's both the metakl dome & diamonds I find are too bright and can cause listening fatigue
B&W Nautilus/Diamond speakers are *not* bright, but can be so with poor system matching (as one would expect with any half-decent transducer). Your characterization as such conveys a general cluelessness.
Irrespective, SA-CDs (in comparisons with their CD counterparts) should not sound "bright" ... and don't to me. This points to an equipment issue.
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Post by Stuart June 4, 2011 (36 of 63)
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flyingdutchman said:
I think all the Fischer discs were in DSD. Anyone know differently?
Sorry, I meant the only DSD-recorded disc from the list of SACDs that I had listened to.
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zeus said:
B&W Nautilus/Diamond speakers are *not* bright, but can be so with poor system matching (as one would expect with any half-decent transducer). Your characterization as such conveys a general cluelessness.
Irrespective, SA-CDs (in comparisons with their CD counterparts) should not sound "bright" ... and don't to me. This points to an equipment issue.
Hi-Fi World Noel Keywood has measured the new B & W 804 Diamond and says Tweeter output was also consistantly high , peaking up by + 6 dB around 12k Hz. This will produce audible brightness in the treble , even a treble sting .
High frequency output above 3 kHz was generally strong from the 804D giving good detailing but a bright sound balance. High frequency output from the 804D borders on excessive for a so called high fidelity loudspeaker. It is far from accurate. Furthermore a tube amplifier apart from a transistor one (Noel is a antique tube fan) that I would not touch (Tubes) was used in the evaluation. These comments have put me off from purchasing diamond tweeter speakers despite Stereophile saying "Simply a Pleasure to listen to" I have listened and find them bright irrespective of amplifier used especially at normal listening level.Interestingly Zeus mentions B& W Nautilus whose designer left B& W to manufacture Vivid speakers I have just auditioned a pair and they are not bright but are a very quirky design.
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Disbeliever said:
... B& W Nautilus whose designer left B& W to manufacture Vivid speakers I have just auditioned a pair and they are not bright but are a very quirky design.
Great speakers, by the way (the Vivids); I too was very impressed about their sound (I heard two different models from them, the big K1 and the small V1). There's some fantastical, near-ethereal sense to the sound picture and the HF are extremely delicate.
Dickie's basic idea for them was to design active studio reference monitors with built-in amps, but with his South African partners they decided to go the home audio route instead. Too bad, I might have considered had they actually been active and had they made their measurements public...(they didn't) and been less expensive.
Eventually, I opted for an active (pseudo)coaxial design with directional low frequencies reaching further down than most subwoofers, near-perfect accuracy, and the most impressive dynamics I've ever heard from units one can still place in a home. Never regretted; they are awesome.
PT
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Stuart said:
"Post by audioholik Today 04:02 pm It might be a severe case of Meitner allergy. Have you tried any SACDs recorded with other A/D converters? Is the fatigue problem still present when you are listening to, let's say, new AP Nat King Cole SACDs?"
I'm such a newbie that I don't quite understand the question.
Apologies for not being more specific. When you look into the booklets of the SACD's you should be able to find information about the DSD converters used in the SACD mastering, Julia Fischer's SACD - Meitner A/D?, RCA living stereo SACD - dCS. Both converters are already obsoleted by non-bright, natural sounding Grimm AD1. Before you try changing your hardware, I would recommend listening to any SACDs recorded with the Grimm converter first. I would prescribe these two SACD's Nat "King" Cole: Love Is The Thing Nat "King" Cole: The Very Thought of You
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Polarius T said:
Great speakers, by the way (the Vivids); I too was very impressed about their sound (I heard two different models from them, the big K1 and the small V1). There's some fantastical, near-ethereal sense to the sound picture and the HF are extremely delicate.
Dickie's basic idea for them was to design active studio reference monitors with built-in amps, but with his South African partners they decided to go the home audio route instead. Too bad, I might have considered had they actually been active and had they made their measurements public...(they didn't) and been less expensive.
Eventually, I opted for an active (pseudo)coaxial design with directional low frequencies reaching further down than most subwoofers, near-perfect accuracy, and the most impressive dynamics I've ever heard from units one can still place in a home. Never regretted; they are awesome.
PT
I would like to know the name of these awesome speakers !
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