Post by Hitters January 17, 2011 (11 of 106)
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Yes, I agree with you. SACD's high resolution is fully appreciated through top of the line headphones.
Of course, in order to get the details, you have to sacrifice the sheer physical impact of speakers.
Anyway, I have been listening to SACDs via headphones for the last seven years. I tried several brands and models and as I could not choose just one pair of headphones I ended buying two! I prefer my Sennheiser 650 for Jazz and Pop/Rock, and my AKGs 701 for Classical (both Orchestral and Chamber). The Sennheisers produce a more compact and round sound, and they are to be preferred in the mentioned genres and even for solo piano to the AKGs. The 701s, on the other hand, give the best possible soundstage and rendering of detail and timbres. But they are very weak for pop and rock. The drums, for example, sound very thin and unconvincing. The 650s are much better in this respect.
In both cases I use a dedicated amp, a Musical Fidelity X Can V3 (though there are many wonderful headphones amps to choose from). I recently tried the Sennheiser 800s and found them amazing, like marrying the best of both 650 and 701 worlds! They were expertly driven by a Lehmann headphone amp. I thought, well, I have to get this headphones! And then thought about it again and reached the conclusion that sometime you have to stop. It is all about the music, and you can lose the north and get distracted from it while you look for the perfect piece of equipment.
In my opinion, headphones are a fantastic way to get hi-end sound at moderate prices. I was even able to buy TWO pairs of headphones without feeling guilty. The only problem is that when you get used to this quality, then, if you wish to get a system comprised of an amp + pre + speakers that sounds as good as your phones, then you have to spend real money, and that, I cannot do.
I also listened to various models of Stax and they are also wonderful! But if I had to buy headphones for the very first time, I would go with the Senns 800.
Finally, there is another pro to headphones over speakers. As someone said before, you do not bother other people, especially if you like very strange music as I do. And listening through headphones at night, in the dark, to fantastic music, is like traveling across imaginary landscapes.
So I do recommend trying headphones for SACD, but be warned: you might get addicted.
Enjoy the music. Juan
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Hitters said:
So I do recommend trying headphones for SACD, but be warned: you might get addicted.
Or not. ;-)
Kal
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Post by Ernani71 January 17, 2011 (13 of 106)
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Hitters said:
A. I prefer my Sennheiser 650 for Jazz and Pop/Rock, and my AKGs 701 for Classical (both Orchestral and Chamber).
B. In both cases I use a dedicated amp, a Musical Fidelity X Can V3 (though there are many wonderful headphones amps to choose from).
A. The 650 strikes me as having too narrow a soundstage for full orchestra. Jazz, Pop/Rock, and also Classical Chamber-scale music are very well accomodated by the 650. If the 800 has a larger soundstage, it really might be worth the upgrade if you listen mostly to full orchestra.
B. Does anybody find that the amp makes a huge difference? For instance, will a better amp expand the soundstage on the 650? I'm currently using a headroom micro amp, but am thinking about getting something more powerful if it will widen the soundstage.
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Post by yakman January 17, 2011 (14 of 106)
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Ernani71 said:
A. The 650 strikes me as having too narrow a soundstage for full orchestra. Jazz, Pop/Rock, and also Classical Chamber-scale music are very well accomodated by the 650. If the 800 has a larger soundstage, it really might be worth the upgrade if you listen mostly to full orchestra.
B. Does anybody find that the amp makes a huge difference? For instance, will a better amp expand the soundstage on the 650? I'm currently using a headroom micro amp, but am thinking about getting something more powerful if it will widen the soundstage.
A. HD800 has a larger soundstage.
B. Amp makes a huge difference on sound stage.
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Post by Nagraboy January 18, 2011 (15 of 106)
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Does the amp make a difference for headphones?
I used to own Grado GS1000 and their RA1 battery headphone amp. When I used the Grados with my Nagra PLP tube preamp, the stage width and depth was very obviously widened and deepened. There was a smoother, more even perspective regarding the placement of sounds coming from different distances.
Headphone amplifiers make just as much difference as amplifiers do with speakers.
And you must be careful to check the impedence of your headphones, because many headphone amps have too high an output impedence that affects the tonal balance. The Grados with their 32ohm imp. were too low for the Nagra PLP which has a 50ohm imp. Sennheiser HD650 or HD800 would be better for an amplifier with higher output impedence (they are about 300ohm.)
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Post by Hitters January 18, 2011 (16 of 106)
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Kal Rubinson said:
Or not. ;-)
Kal
Ha! or not! But in your case it is not fair. You have access to the high quality amp+pre+speakers I was talking about! So, I understand that you are no so much into headphones. Just kidding. Have a nice day. Juan
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Post by Kutyatest January 18, 2011 (17 of 106)
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Nagraboy said:
SACDs sound great through headphones. The high-resolution format really plays to the strengths of good headphones, with their superb clarity, detail, coherance and intimacy.
Does anyone agree? Maybe you use a dedicated headphone/SACD setup or do a significant amount of listening on 'phones.
Let's have a discussion about how to get a great-value setup and also some views about the best available combinations and their performance with SACDs.
Unfortunately perhaps, I don't agree completely. I feel sure that the hi-res format should be suited perfectly to listening over headphones, but whenever I tried listening to a MCH SACD (or DVD-A) over headphones, I felt that there was something missing, i.e. I probably wasn't getting the multi-channel effect.
I concede that my headphones are not at the high end of the market, being Sennheiser RD-45 (if I remember correctly), but I've gone off headphone listening. Each to their own though.
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Hitters said:
Ha! or not! But in your case it is not fair. You have access to the high quality amp+pre+speakers I was talking about! So, I understand that you are no so much into headphones. Just kidding. Have a nice day. Juan
Sure, it is a fair comment. It has nothing to do with the level of amp+speakers that I use but to a fundamental dislike for the spatial depiction of headphones (without binaural recordings or Smyth Realiser) and for the personal discomfort from headphone and earbuds.
But it was meant in jest.
Kal
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Kal barely mentioned a unique way of listening to music. That is headphones using the Smyth Technology multi channel processor. At the L.A. California Head-Fi.org convention I found it to be a whole new way of listening to headphones. If I was starting to put a high end multi channel system in place, I would definately have a Smyth unit to multichannel my headphone listening.
Both my speaker system and separate headphone system are limited to two channels. The phone system is just as dependent on the right details to really make even Sacd Stereo sound outstanding. Currently my system is a Marantz SA11-S2 directly to a Zana Deux (OTL tube amp) to Sennheiser650 headphones. Facinating but also frustrating is how much difference interconnects, headphone cables, power conditioning, wallplugs,etc. can make on soundstage and the emotional impact the music makes.
For me with my headphone system there is an intimacy that is truly wonderful.
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Post by Ernani71 January 22, 2011 (20 of 106)
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What's a good headphone amp for the 650?
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