Post by Pete97229 December 28, 2009 (1 of 26)
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First of all, thanks to the moderator and contributors involved with this site. I'm very new to the game, and appreciate all the great info.
Here's my question: I recently purchased a Yamaha DVD/SACD player (DVD-S1700), and can't get the SACD audio to play through the digital outputs (coax or optical - my amp does not have an HDMI input).
I have been able to successfully route the SACD surround signals from the player's multi-channel outputs to the amplifier's multi channel inputs, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out by not having a digital signal. It does sound great, but lacks some of the warmth that I get with my DVD-Audio discs with DTS and Dolby Digital.
Forgive my lack of knowledge - but does digital SACD output exist? My manual is not really clear. Meanwhile, I'm feeling fortunate that my amp does at least have the multi channel input capability.
Any help you can provide would be great. Thanks again for a great site.
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Post by bholz December 28, 2009 (2 of 26)
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From the FAQ on this site...
"* SPDIF (coaxial or optical digital audio output) is not compatible with DSD; only with PCM (IEC- 60958) and MPEG2 Multichannel, Dolby Digital & DTS (IEC-61937). Reportedly some Sony SA-CD players perform down-conversion to PCM 88.2 kHz, a sampling rate which is officially not part of the SPDIF spec but in practice supported by many AV receivers nowadays.
* i.LINK, also known as FireWire and IEEE1394, is a high-performance serial bus used for connecting peripherals to multimedia computers. It can carry DSD audio in a secure way but there are few devices (SA-CD players and AV receivers) that can handle this. SA-CD players include Sony’s SCD-XA9000ES and Yamaha’s DVD-S2500.
* HDMI supports DSD audio from version 1.2 up. PlayStation3 uses version 1.3 of HDMI but thus far it doesn’t provide DSD output. See Can I play SA-CDs on my games console? above. Players that do include Pioneer’s DV-600AV and Oppo’s DV-980H."
So, I believe, the only way you are going to get SACD to play in your current system is via the Analog Out of your SACD player into the Analog input of your receiver. I don't have your equipment, but my system is set up this way (NAD M55 disc player and NAD T763 A/V receiver) In my case, this is preferable anyway as the D/A decoder is better in my M55 than my T763
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Post by Pete97229 December 28, 2009 (3 of 26)
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bholz - thank you.
Quick follow-up: How much am I missing by using the analog multi-channel inputs? They seem to sound really good - and I am receiving the surround channels. I'm just wondering how much of a difference there is between the multi-channel inputs and the HDMI capable systems.
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Post by pgmdir December 28, 2009 (4 of 26)
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SACD is not available to outboard digital converters in standard players--- The analog outputs are just fine. Plug in, turn on, and enjoy.
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Pete97229 said:
Quick follow-up: How much am I missing by using the analog multi-channel inputs?
Hi Pete,
Welcome to the SACD world, this is the Highest Resolution music avaliable.
I listen in Stereo with the analog output from the SACD player to two mono amps, and the sound is great.
I think you are losing nothing this way, because the best Hi-End amps use an analogue input, they do not have a Digital processed preamp.
I like to keep my audio system the simplest way to best signal integrity.
Regards,
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Post by urbo73 December 28, 2009 (6 of 26)
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Pete97229 said:
bholz - thank you.
Quick follow-up: How much am I missing by using the analog multi-channel inputs? They seem to sound really good - and I am receiving the surround channels. I'm just wondering how much of a difference there is between the multi-channel inputs and the HDMI capable systems.
Since you don't have an HDMI receiver that has a DSD decoding DAC, you're not missing anything. And even if you did, I doubt you'd hear a difference between the decoding in the player vs. the receiver. Just don't worry about it and enjoy the music! Well implemented DACs sound pretty much the same these days, despite some manufacturers' claims to the contrary to yank money from your pockets. If you have extra money, spend it on speakers. That will give you the biggest boost in sound over anything else in your chain.
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Post by Kutyatest December 28, 2009 (7 of 26)
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Pete97229 said:
bholz - thank you.
Quick follow-up: How much am I missing by using the analog multi-channel inputs? They seem to sound really good - and I am receiving the surround channels. I'm just wondering how much of a difference there is between the multi-channel inputs and the HDMI capable systems.
I'm unable to answer your question exactly, but would definately go along with what the previous poster mentioned, i.e just enjoy the music. Your post though, reminded me of a problem I had when I first took delivery of my Arcam DV137 hi-res player in December 2006. I too attempted to use a conventional digital connection to listen to my (very first) SACD, and couldn't get a squeek out of it! DVD-As worked through digi-coax (abeit compromised audio), but not SACD. This is something that both my dealer and the owner's manual failed to mention. I thought I had a problem with my player.
I believe that it's possible to play SACD through the HDMI output of my player, but (as far as I can tell from the manual) I wouldn't gain anything over using the analogue outputs. It doesn't actually state it so explicitly in the manual, but Arcam actually recommend on their website that the ananlogue outputs are used for all music sources, whether hi-res or not. I therefore have connected all 8 analogue outputs from my player to my multi-channel amplifier. These are the 2 stereo outputs, and the 6 outputs for multi-channel music.
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Post by steviev December 28, 2009 (8 of 26)
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urbo73 said:
Well implemented DACs sound pretty much the same these days, despite some manufacturers' claims to the contrary to yank money from your pockets. If you have extra money, spend it on speakers. That will give you the biggest boost in sound over anything else in your chain.
If only this were true. My Sony (el-cheapo) CE-595 SACD player produces better sound from its DAC than my Denon AVR-588. At the start of certain tracks, when listening to RBCDs, there is a millisecond cutoff then an audible *pop* from my Denon receiver (in Direct Mode) which is absent from the Sony player. Maybe the Denon DAC is crummy, I don't know. If there is a substantial period of silence on an RBCD, my Denon receiver does the same thing: it makes a truncated silence followed by a *pop*.
My experience tells me that not all DACs are created equal.
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Post by Kutyatest December 29, 2009 (9 of 26)
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steviev said:
If only this were true. My Sony (el-cheapo) CE-595 SACD player produces better sound from its DAC than my Denon AVR-588. At the start of certain tracks, when listening to RBCDs, there is a millisecond cutoff then an audible *pop* from my Denon receiver (in Direct Mode) which is absent from the Sony player. Maybe the Denon DAC is crummy, I don't know. If there is a substantial period of silence on an RBCD, my Denon receiver does the same thing: it makes a truncated silence followed by a *pop*.
My experience tells me that not all DACs are created equal.
Your experiences also match my early ones with my Arcam DV137 and AVR350. As stated in my previous post, I originally had my DV137 connected via digi-coax to my amplifier. When I took delivery of my DV137, I was initially using it with my Yamaha RXV-800 amplifier, whilst waiting for my ordered AVR350 to arrive. Despite mentioning to my dealer the sort of music media I wanted to play, i.e. DVD-As and SACDs, the recommendation of phono leads was not mentioned at all.
I'm not up to speed on the technical side of things, but supposedly the DAC on my DV137 is superior to my AVR350 - at least that is what I have read on another forum. When I first had my DV137 connected to the AVR350 using digi co-ax, there was a fraction of a second of sound cut off when playing any CDs. This was remedied by using all analogue outputs (4 pairs) for all music sources - as recommended by Arcam - and also having a digital output connected. In the manual, it states that wherever possible, have both the ananlogue and digital outputs connected. Once I started using the ananlogue outputs, music from CDs and DVD-As sounded so much better - and CDs no longer suffered from the "cut-off". The other more important advantage, was that I could listen to SACDs at last!
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Post by bholz December 29, 2009 (10 of 26)
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Pete97229 said:
bholz - thank you.
Quick follow-up: How much am I missing by using the analog multi-channel inputs? They seem to sound really good - and I am receiving the surround channels. I'm just wondering how much of a difference there is between the multi-channel inputs and the HDMI capable systems.
As others have stated, I don't think you are missing a thing by using the analog outputs. I have no experience with using HDMI as only my NAD M55 and my Onkyo DVD Changer are HDMI capable. I took a look at the user manual for your SACD player and it seems that it provides everything that you need to set up bass management and speaker distances etc. (at least as long as you don't have an odd room configuration - the manual notes some limitations that would make properly configuring this player difficult for my space). Enjoy the music!
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