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steviev said:
Perceptive. It is much like a parlor trick -- I could only reliably tell the difference between SA and RB stereo when violins, flutes, and/or clarinets played loudly in their highest ranges. DSD violins sound thinner, whinier, silvery, and more "resin-y" (aspirant) in their upper reaches. In RB, high violins are fatter and flatter, with less prominent aspirants. High flute notes are sweeter, "rounder", and produce less sound pressure in DSD. Also, aspirant flute chuffing sounds are more prominent. Clarinets have a more keening, flute-like sound in DSD. I think that's why I did so well on the Weinberg disc mentioned above -- it has two flute concertos, and Weinberg frequently writes high, loud parts for the violins.
In my tests, midrange and bass were useless for discriminating between RB and SA.
But I can't really say that I always preferred SA to RB in every case. I think multichannel is the real reason I like SA-CD.
I agree with final line.
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Post by Petrus  November 25, 2009 (42 of 86)
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DSD said:
I took your test
Post by DSD November 7, 2009 (147 of 149)
/showthread/44463//y?page=last
Well Petrus I finally got up the nerve to listen to this awful sounding music in this 24/96 file again.
What initially turned me off is the first 30 seconds are extremely dry and the violin very strident indicating 44.1kHz.
At 31 seconds the sound opens up, the violin losses much of it's stridency and there is some audible ambiance, so this would be high resolution.
At 3:31 the sound once again coarsens up and I believe it is again 44.1kHz. I couldn't listen beyond this point as it got too uncomfortable.
This was really hard as the music is all midrangy with no deep bass or high percussion instruments so I listened instead to the tone of the violin and for ambiance.
My reply at the relevant thread.
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Post by bissie November 25, 2009 (43 of 86)
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Petrus said:
My reply at the relevant thread.
May I ask, who has put the epithet "TROLL" behind Petrus's name?
I find that utterly tasteless. He is in no way worse than some other posters here. Like Teresa, he has an agenda, but, at least to my eyes, he seems to know infinitely more about technique than she does.
If it is zeus, why then not expel him? To let him post, with that insulting epithet, is not in good style.
Robert
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Post by Petrus November 25, 2009 (44 of 86)
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Do not worry Robert, I feel kind of proud...
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Post by stvnharr November 25, 2009 (45 of 86)
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urbo73 said:
Hmm. OK, here's some background. I really thought the question was an easy one, but it seems not. One should be able to reply w/o me providing more info than what was in my original post. It was not a trolling post at all. Not sure what I need to prove. It's really a simple question - and a clear one I thought. Anyway, since you're curious..
Musical tastes: Jazz, Classical, Classic/Progressive Rock, etc. Many.
I have an OPPO BDP-83 player that can play SACDs, but I'm looking into getting an external DAC/PRE-AMP for CD playback and using the digital coax out for that. Then the OPPO will then just be a transport for music/CDs (and of course Blu-ray/DVD player as it is now). Now when I get the DAC, I may not want to spend more for a pair of analog inputs unless I need them. And in my case (no phono, etc.), I will only need them if I decide to get into SACD. Because in that case I will need to use the analog out as well from the OPPO, just for SACD discs. So that's why I'm looking to see if it's worth it for me personally. So I though I'd like to try some SACDs and compare them with their CD counterparts. Maybe I'll be able to tell, maybe I won't. That concerns me. But that's why I'm here to ask - what is the absolute best way to test? In my reasoning, it has to be a hybrid. So I'm looking for some recommendations, so that I don't get a crappy SACD and base my decision on that. So again, the question is all there in my initial post.
Ryan,
As you've read from the responses given, your hopefully simple question has brought out all kinds of posts, most off on tangents, including my own posts. You likely came in to this without much of a sense of history about a lot of things on that have gone on on the forum. The mere mention of Meyer/Moran will raise all kinds of red flags. A lot of posts will also just be personal things that are not really applicable to your original question.
Now that you've given further information about the background of your question, it seems that you are wondering about the feasibility of purchasing the Benchmark dac, or just going with sacd from the Oppo. And you wanted a few recommendations about possible "best discs" to evaluate the above proposition. I know it sounds a like a simple question, but few things are ever so simple.
I think the best advise you've been given thus far is to just find some hybrids discs that are of music you know well, or by artists you know well. Familiarity with the music will give you a better reference to judge sacd/cd differences by than just about anything else.
I know you are concerned about "crappy" sacd's, but I think about the only one you need to really avoid is that Norah Jones one that was made from a rbcd master.
If you want a jazz recommendation, well, Chesky's recent Jazz in the Key of Blue will serve you well, if you like the music. It's certainly a well recorded piece of music.
Hope this helps.
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bissie said:
who has put the epithet "TROLL" behind Petrus's name?
I find that utterly tasteless.
and Petrus feels proud of it.
PS I agree zeus shouldn't feed trolls and give them attention they desire so much.
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Post by canonical November 25, 2009 (47 of 86)
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urbo73 said:
I'd like to get 3-5 recommendations of stereo (no interested in multi-channel) SACDs that are hybrid, so I can switch back and forth between the SACD and CD layers .... One classical, jazz, rock, etc.
One classical?
I'd be very happy to make some suggestions, if you would like to narrow your classical interests down a bit ... E.g. are you seeking solo piano, solo cello, chamber music, orchestral, opera etc? All of the above? ... Also, do you have any aversions too (e.g. 20th C?).
BTW, switching back and forth between the CD and SACD layers is not quite so easy as your posting suggests ... this is because the CD and SACD layers have different 'focal lengths' for the laser to focus on, so to speak, so the machine has to re-set itself to your imposed choice, and this requires you to stop, impose the setting, and it takes at least 10 seconds or more. Listening to the CD layer on an SACD disc is not really a normal or natural thing to do ... you have to specially force the machine to do it ... Nevertheless, it is something I occasionally do when I am particularly impressed by a disc ... just out of curiosity.
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Post by danbomb November 25, 2009 (48 of 86)
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I think a lot of what makes sacd better for me is the overall feel of the dynamics from this format. It seems much more natural and I actually get butterflies in my stomach like I did when I was a kid listening to vinyl.
I ran the engineering lab for a company called Line 6 for 10 years. Line 6 invented tube amp modelling for guitar players to simulate tube amps. I worked with lot of very sharp engineers who could not tell the difference in an A/B test and could not understand why anyone would prefer tubes.
I was one of the few that could always beat the test and I relied on feel as much or more than sound. The way a tube amp behaves is WAY different than solid state. I use a 1/2 watt tube amp for guitar in my apartment to get the inspirational feel I need and the dynamics I crave.
I know this is apples and oranges but the bottom line is the same- I know what I like regardless of any measurements in the lab and people telling me I'm crazy.
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Post by urbo73 November 25, 2009 (49 of 86)
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Post by Edvin November 25, 2009 (50 of 86)
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bissie said:
May I ask, who has put the epithet "TROLL" behind Petrus's name?
I find that utterly tasteless. He is in no way worse than some other posters here. Like Teresa, he has an agenda, but, at least to my eyes, he seems to know infinitely more about technique than she does.
If it is zeus, why then not expell him? To let him post, with that insulting epithet, is not in good style.
Robert
I agree completely. This is bullying. Shame on you zeus.
Thomas Troll
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