Post by azure May 19, 2009 (91 of 107)
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Paul said:
I often wonder why vinyl has seen such a resurgence while SACD falters along. I have heard decent vinyl playback but I think SACD sounds at least as good and does not suffer from pops, hiss, and degradation each time it is played. Is it because vinyl allows more gear fetishism? Vinyl requires a nearly religious devotion to maintenance and tweaking which I think appeals to many people. Now that more new titles and reissues are released on vinyl I can see some appeal but for me the hassles of ownership outweigh the benefits; I can only hope that the SACD jazz-reissues from AP keep on coming!
As for the whole "back to future" vinyl thing..I don't understand it either... each playback of an Lp deteriorates it..
Back in the 70s I would tape the first playing on a metal tape .. and listen to that..
Maybe you're right.. its some type of "gear fetish" LOL
Even ECM has started releasing a select number of titles on vinyl :crazy:
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Post by DSD May 20, 2009 (92 of 107)
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flyingdutchman said:
How would you know what is the "legal line?" You merely spout off because it doesn't conform to your opinion but that has absolutely nothing to do with legality. Honestly, do you think a decent lawyer would even listen to your babblings? He'd laugh you out of his office.
Because it's inflammatory, suitable for a class action lawsuit. He is accusing ALL the makers of SACD/CD hybrids of deliberately sabotaging the CD layer in order to make the SACD layer sound better. This is not only a bald face lie, but is damaging to the reputations of all the wonderful companies who make SACDs. And it is one that could easily be proven in court.
This is NOT a free speech issue! Sam Tellig knows it would be insane for SACD makers to sabotage the CD layer, not only because they still sell more CDs than SACDs but most have audiophile reputations to uphold.
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Post by mahlerei May 20, 2009 (93 of 107)
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DSD said:
I wonder if they could sue for defamation of character? Opinion is one thing and the constitution protects our free speech. But to say something one KNOWS is not true is a malicious illegal act and one which is not tolerated in a just society.
Sam Tellig's belief that the CD layers of SACDs do not sound as good as RBCDs would fall under free speech. However when he wrongfully accuses audiophile companies of sabotaging the CD layers of their own products he has crossed the legal line.
Most of these companies are dual inventory and could easily provide both the Redbook CD version and the SACD/CD hybrids to a court and let them compare the CD layers of both to expose these lies by Sam Tellig as the despicable attacks they are, designed only to do damage to the SACD format in the eyes of the reading public.
Teresa
I'm afraid your grasp of the law is tenuous to say the least. What I find most disturbing in your posts is the irrational faith in SACD that brooks no opposition and even contemplates legal action when any such opposition is voiced.
I'm with Kal on this; I think SACD is the dog's bits but I too realise the format is not commercially viable any more (if indeed it ever was). Blu-ray may turn out to be The Next Big Thing in audio terms, but who knows? The only certainty is that technology marches on and soon SACD will just be a footnote in the history of recorded sound.
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Post by DSD May 20, 2009 (94 of 107)
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mahlerei said:
Teresa
I'm afraid your grasp of the law is tenuous to say the least. What I find most disturbing in your posts is the irrational faith in SACD that brooks no opposition and even contemplates legal action when any such opposition is voiced.
It's not Sam Tellig's opposition that is the problem, it is his inflammatory damaging language used to defame all the producers of SACD/CD hybrids. You cannot accuse people of using malice to deliberately sabotage their products without proof in a court of law. This is NOT a free speech issue! Sam Tellig is trying to damage the SACD format and anyone who dares to release an SACD/CD hybrid. I would love to see a group "Deformation of Character" class lawsuit by all of those so defamed.
BTW my faith in SACD is not irrational, it is based on listening to music.
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DSD said:
BTW my faith in SACD is not irrational, it is based on listening to music.
same here.
but I also think that the format has still the greatest probability of success (there's nothing irrational about it) - my opinion is based on my experience as a product manager constantly involved in introducing new products to the market.
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DSD said:
Because it's inflammatory, suitable for a class action lawsuit. He is accusing ALL the makers of SACD/CD hybrids of deliberately sabotaging the CD layer in order to make the SACD layer sound better.
It happens, though not for reasons of "deliberate sabotage": see http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/851/ . The CD layer is over-compressed and sounds dreadful compared to the SACD layer, for reasons explained in the article.
And "class action lawsuit"? Ask a lawyer. And look up the First Amendment.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
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Post by mahlerei May 20, 2009 (97 of 107)
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DSD said:
It's not Sam Tellig's opposition that is the problem, it is his inflammatory damaging language used to defame all the producers of SACD/CD hybrids. You cannot accuse people of using malice to deliberately sabotage their products without proof in a court of law. This is NOT a free speech issue! Sam Tellig is trying to damage the SACD format and anyone who dares to release an SACD/CD hybrid. I would love to see a group "Deformation of Character" class lawsuit by all of those so defamed.
BTW my faith in SACD is not irrational, it is based on listening to music.
Teresa
Don't you see the irony of your position? If SACD is the only format and CD is rubbish what does that say to all those dedicated professionals - bissie and his crew included - who lovingly put together fine recordings on the format you won't even listen to? Oh, I forgot, they are deluded souls who have become 'desensitised' to real music through years of exposure to the Great Corrupter, RBCD.
Frankly your doctrinaire position is absurd and the more you try to defend it the more ridiculous you look.
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Post by mahlerei May 20, 2009 (98 of 107)
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audioholik said:
but I also think that the format has still the greatest probability of success (there's nothing irrational about it) - my opinion is based on my experience as a product manager constantly involved in introducing new products to the market.
But how can you possibly know that? Now that is irrational. And any product manager who believes he has one product that will outlast and outsell all others for all time is simply delusional. If there is one constant in this world it's change, and SACD will soon be replaced by something else. who knows, it may be a quantum leap in audio technology that will make SACDs seem like wax cylinders.
This 'debate' reminds me of those who believe the world is only a few thousand years old, despite all the empirical evidence to the contrary. Scientists have just discovered a 47-million-year-old fossil that could provide the 'missing link' between apes and humans. And still the fundamentalists doggedly pursue their outmoded beliefs.
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mahlerei said:
Teresa
Don't you see the irony of your position? If SACD is the only format and CD is rubbish what does that say to all those dedicated professionals - bissie and his crew included - who lovingly put together fine recordings on the format you won't even listen to? Oh, I forgot, they are deluded souls who have become 'desensitised' to real music through years of exposure to the Great Corrupter, RBCD.
Frankly your doctrinaire position is absurd and the more you try to defend it the more ridiculous you look.
Your postings have a delicious troll quality.
Actually, I don't see any irony in Teresa's position. You are confusing two completely different sides of the market: buyers and sellers. As a buyer, she wants the best that is available, and so she buys SACD or other hi-rez formats. As it so happens, Teresa is about the most open-minded person I've come across wrt different ways of getting hi-rez ... as long as it is hi-rez, she is happy. She is about as far from 'doctrinaire' as you can get.
On the other side of the market, sellers sell anything they can sell. Not all have access to decent recording equipment, nor want the extra costs associated with high quality. Not all are interested in catering for audiophile tastes. In similar vein, GM doesn't tend to try to compete with BMW or Audi. And the fact that GM and the big players of the US music industry have all been stuck in the past and are all going down the tube is not lost on me.
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Post by mahlerei May 20, 2009 (100 of 107)
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canonical said:
Your postings have a delicious troll quality.
Actually, I don't see any irony in Teresa's position. You are confusing two completely different sides of the market: buyers and sellers. As a buyer, she wants the best that is available, and so she buys SACD or other hi-rez formats. As it so happens, Teresa is about the most open-minded person I've come across wrt different ways of getting hi-rez ... as long as it is hi-rez, she is happy. She is about as far from 'doctrinaire' as you can get.
On the other side of the market, sellers sell anything they can sell. Not all have access to decent recording equipment, nor want the extra costs associated with high quality. Not all are interested in catering for audiophile tastes. In similar vein, GM doesn't tend to try to compete with BMW or Audi. And the fact that GM and the big players of the US music industry have all been stuck in the past and are all going down the tube is not lost on me.
canonical
It seems that if anyone dares to disagrees with you and Teresa they are:
1. Desensitised by too much exposure to RBCDs
2. Trolls
Call me what you like - after 30 years as a journalist I'm pretty thick skinned - but the truth is yours and Teresa's arguments just do not stand up to scrutiny.
PS: May I suggest you look up irony?
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