Post by nickc October 26, 2004 (11 of 21)
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mdt said:
I believe back-up recordings on tape were made during direct-to-disc sessions, it should be interesting to make some direct to DSD transfers from these for SA-CD release.
max
what was recorded in those sessions and by who (if you know?)
cheers
nick
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Post by mdt October 26, 2004 (12 of 21)
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nickc said:
max
what was recorded in those sessions and by who (if you know?)
cheers
nick
I have several CD's from Sheffield Lab. Some are more recent so probably not all of them were originaly direct to disc recordings.I can say that with certainty from the two discs with Erich Leinsdorf, Stravinsky Firebird Suite plus orchestral excerpts from Wagner operas and Prokovieff Romeo& Julia suite plus Wagner Forrestmurmurs. These recordings were made at the MGM scoring stage and if i remember correctly from the liner notes of the original LP were recorded with a single MS stereo mike set up.
I believe having seen CDs from original Crystal Clear recordings some time ago (Tchaykovsky Capriccio italien, Arthur Fiedler Boston Pops).
Seems to me it was general practice to run tape recorders along with cutting direct to disc.
While i did'nt find any info about Crystal Clear Records, Sheffield does have a web page at www.sheffieldlab.com you may want to check it out, and mail them to ask about their SA-CD plans.
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Post by Chris October 26, 2004 (13 of 21)
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nickc said:
max
what was recorded in those sessions and by who (if you know?)
cheers
nick
Both the Sheffield Wagner, Prokofiev and Stravinsky sessions were direct cuts.Unfortunately I haven't got the Firebird,but I've got the other two and they are simply stunning regarding the dynamic range and accurate timbres,but recorded in a rather dry venue.
The Crystal Clear records were both done in Watford Town Hall and the Boston Symphony Hall,also direct cuts and likewise stunning.
The Boston Pops record contained light music by Tchaikovsky and Rimsky Korsakow. Very realistic, simple miked recording that needs to be played LOUD to shine.The Watford sessions have both Bartok 's Miraculous Mandarin and Ravel's La Valse together with some De Falla.
If you find them second hand just grab them!Forget the CDs !!!
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Post by mdt October 26, 2004 (14 of 21)
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Chris said:
Both the Sheffield Wagner, Prokofiev and Stravinsky sessions were direct cuts.Unfortunately I haven't got the Firebird,but I've got the other two and they are simply stunning regarding the dynamic range and accurate timbres,but recorded in a rather dry venue.
The Crystal Clear records were both done in Watford Town Hall and the Boston Symphony Hall,also direct cuts and likewise stunning.
The Boston Pops record contained light music by Tchaikovsky and Rimsky Korsakow. Very realistic, simple miked recording that needs to be played LOUD to shine.The Watford sessions have both Bartok 's Miraculous Mandarin and Ravel's La Valse together with some De Falla.
If you find them second hand just grab them!Forget the CDs !!!
Unfortunately i no longer have a record player, so im hoping for SA-CDs.The carefully remastered CDs from Sheffield (Audiophile Reference Series) are excellent however.Mastertapes were transfered to Sheffields high-end 20 Bit A/D converter, then down-sampled to the CD format and pressed on gold coated discs.The resulting sound takes CD to its limits, it's absolutely stunning, i will not forget the CDs.
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Post by Chris October 26, 2004 (15 of 21)
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mdt said:
Unfortunately i no longer have a record player, so im hoping for SA-CDs.The carefully remastered CDs from Sheffield (Audiophile Reference Series) are excellent however.Mastertapes were transfered to Sheffields high-end 20 Bit A/D converter, then down-sampled to the CD format and pressed on gold coated discs.The resulting sound takes CD to its limits, it's absolutely stunning, i will not forget the CDs.
Each to his own as the saying goes,sure 20bits are better than 16,but still far from enough to capture what's on the direct cut LPs.Gold or not! You can't get more than a pint out of a pint bottle!Your CDs are at best third generation copies so to say, and a far cry from what was cut onto the LPs.THey are still SOTA.
But with some luck SACDs will at least take you closer to the master tape sound than any RBCD can do.
All the best Chris
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Post by Tam July 23, 2005 (16 of 21)
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mdt said:
The Crystal Clear records were both done in Watford Town Hall and the Boston Symphony Hall,also direct cuts and likewise stunning.
I stumbled across this forum when looking for references to those sessions. I was the UK organiser for the equipment used - two Scully lathes fitted with Ortofon heads and electronics. One of the lathes was my own.
Elsewhere someone mentioned that it was common practice to record backups. Correct - at those two Watford sessions we had the two lathes, the first PCM100 (14 bit) and the first 1 inch stereo recorder - the heads were made specially for the job.
I still have my copies of the pressings, with a set carefully preserved in unopened packs!
Tony
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Post by mdt July 23, 2005 (17 of 21)
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Chris said:
Each to his own as the saying goes,sure 20bits are better than 16,but still far from enough to capture what's on the direct cut LPs.Gold or not! You can't get more than a pint out of a pint bottle!Your CDs are at best third generation copies so to say, and a far cry from what was cut onto the LPs.THey are still SOTA.
But with some luck SACDs will at least take you closer to the master tape sound than any RBCD can do.
All the best Chris
How do you know of which generation the CDs are ? Knowing Sheffield i'm sure they fed the same feed that the lathe got direct to the 2track analog master, then digitized it. Once in the digital domain the generation becomes less of an issue. Only loss is through down conversion which i have suggested to avoid by transfering to SA-CD.
By the way, i did have the direct cut LPs as well. However i never miss LP when listening to SA-CD, especially with DSD recordings.I should think a DSD recording is also more faithfull to the original than an LP.
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Post by mdt July 23, 2005 (18 of 21)
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Tam
at those two Watford sessions we had the two lathes, the first PCM100 (14 bit) and the first 1 inch stereo recorder - the heads were made specially for the job.
Tony
How did the PCM 100 and the 1 inch compare ?
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Post by Tam July 24, 2005 (19 of 21)
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mdt said:
How did the PCM 100 and the 1 inch compare ?
Remember this was in 1977! Long before the first CD was demonstrated at the Hamburg AES. The fact that a digital medium worked at all was interesting enough to attract a lot of interest. But certainly it sounded pretty good with a bit of gain riding.
The one inch was an Ampex ATR 100 fed via a Dolby unit that we were loaned. On a direct comparison basis, the one inch was definitely superior.
The two lathes were both Scully with Ortofon heads etc and we managed to cut the longest sides ever done by direct cut. During rehearsals we marked up a score with our anticipated groove spacing, and then manually set those a few seconds before each level change on a cue from the conductors score reader. The older Scully (mine) was easy to control as it had the large pitch control dial, so with that decoupled from the autopitch controller, I could easily set it.
The newer model (only a few ever made) had a smart digital read out with a manual override only from a non-calibrated knob. Like all such read outs, it took too long to settle if reset too quickly. That was NOT easy!
Some day I will have to look through the old photos and articles that I did at the time and put them online if it is of interest.
Tony
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Post by mdt July 24, 2005 (20 of 21)
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Tam said:
Some day I will have to look through the old photos and articles that I did at the time and put them online if it is of interest.
Tony
It certainly is of interest as far as i'm concerned. Are you still in to recording today ?
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