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Edvin said:
I agree. It is not one of the best orchestras in Russia today. Listen to the disastous Beethoven set from Pletnev. And if someone thinks that the VPO cannot play Tchaikovsky just listen to Manfred from Maazel, Karajan´s blistering fourth and many more.
The Maazel Manfred is what, 30 years old? The VPO isn't the VPO of 30 years ago. That isn't to say they aren't good or even great, but you can't compare something so old with an orchestra's standards today. You need something of recent vintage to compare to.
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Edvin said:
It is not one of the best orchestras in Russia today.
My friend, you and I are going to have to disagree on this point! I think that the RNO is one of the foremost orchestras in the world today (based on current form and ignoring other institutions illustrious past). They have a delicacy that is hard to match, let alone surpass, in ballet music and under the right direction have given us some of the most incredible accounts of Russian symphonic repertoire. Note that I say under the right direction because, exceptional though Pletnev may have demonstrated he is at conducting Prokofiev's and Tchaikovsky's ballet music, I would not be rushing to obtain Pletnev conducting Beethoven (even if DG were issuing the set on SACD). Of course, like any artist or group of artists, they will and do have their "off" days but I think that these are far outweighed by their "on" days...
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Post by Edvin November 22, 2007 (133 of 161)
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flyingdutchman said:
The Maazel Manfred is what, 30 years old? The VPO isn't the VPO of 30 years ago. That isn't to say they aren't good or even great, but you can't compare something so old with an orchestra's standards today. You need something of recent vintage to compare to.
And when I hear the tuttis in the new Beethoven Violin concerto I recognize the sound. There is a very strong sense of tradition in Vienna.
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Post by hotmifi November 23, 2007 (134 of 161)
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Post by Arthur November 23, 2007 (135 of 161)
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Polly Nomial said:
My friend, you and I are going to have to disagree on this point! I think that the RNO is one of the foremost orchestras in the world today (based on current form and ignoring other institutions illustrious past). They have a delicacy that is hard to match, let alone surpass, in ballet music and under the right direction have given us some of the most incredible accounts of Russian symphonic repertoire. Note that I say under the right direction because, exceptional though Pletnev may have demonstrated he is at conducting Prokofiev's and Tchaikovsky's ballet music, I would not be rushing to obtain Pletnev conducting Beethoven (even if DG were issuing the set on SACD). Of course, like any artist or group of artists, they will and do have their "off" days but I think that these are far outweighed by their "on" days...
Actually for me the Pletnev Beethoven has been one the few redbook items I actually plopped down money for this year. It's fascinating! But I think Edvin is right if he is complaining about the orchestral playing which is pretty slap-dash at times. The 6th for example struck me as a well-nigh ideal interpretation, IF you can imagine beyond the execution--that only gives you an idea of what Pletnev was aiming for without really achieving those aims--to the aims themselves. (I suddenly understand where Mendelssohn came from.)
On the other hand, it is easier NOT to sound scrappy when you're playing a familiar piece the same way you have dozens of times over many decades! (But so often those performances just sound safe.)
I've usually been on the opposite side of this argument--saying that the recorded sound and the execution are as much a part of the totality as the ideas. But until someone else gives these ideas a better execution (and on SACD) I guess I have to live with my imagination!
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Post by bissie November 24, 2007 (136 of 161)
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Arthur said:
Actually for me the Pletnev Beethoven has been one the few redbook items I actually plopped down money for this year. It's fascinating! But I think Edvin is right if he is complaining about the orchestral playing which is pretty slap-dash at times. The 6th for example struck me as a well-nigh ideal interpretation, IF you can imagine beyond the execution--that only gives you an idea of what Pletnev was aiming for without really achieving those aims--to the aims themselves. (I suddenly understand where Mendelssohn came from.)
On the other hand, it is easier NOT to sound scrappy when you're playing a familiar piece the same way you have dozens of times over many decades! (But so often those performances just sound safe.)
I've usually been on the opposite side of this argument--saying that the recorded sound and the execution are as much a part of the totality as the ideas. But until someone else gives these ideas a better execution (and on SACD) I guess I have to live with my imagination!
Well, then, breathe out.
The Salvation is only days away: BIS-SACD-1716 van Beethoven S1+6, with a 6th that is transcendental.
End advert - Robert
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Post by Arthur November 25, 2007 (137 of 161)
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bissie said:
Well, then, breathe out.
The Salvation is only days away: BIS-SACD-1716 van Beethoven S1+6, with a 6th that is transcendental.
End advert - Robert
Great! I'll be at the head of the line!
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Post by Domimag November 26, 2007 (138 of 161)
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ME TOO !
waiting it very impatiently !
What is missing a lot on SACD (and CD too) is a good and modern version of Mozart piano concertos ! (from 8 to 27 for example ;-))
all the best.
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Post by deckerm November 26, 2007 (139 of 161)
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Domimag said:
ME TOO !
waiting it very impatiently !
What is missing a lot on SACD (and CD too) is a good and modern version of Mozart piano concertos ! (from 8 to 27 for example ;-))
all the best.
start with 20 please :-)
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Post by Peter January 31, 2008 (140 of 161)
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