Post by terence September 20, 2007 (11 of 50)
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if you know either of the first two releases in this series, the sonic signature of this new one is very similar. i personally like it a lot, and find luisi a really outstanding strauss conductor.
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Post by raffells September 21, 2007 (12 of 50)
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terence said:
if you know either of the first two releases in this series, the sonic signature of this new one is very similar. i personally like it a lot, and find luisi a really outstanding strauss conductor.
I hope they include the Violin concerto in this set of releases.Im not bothered who plays it,ie Julie or a.n.other.
Ok I Just accidently heard a version driving in the car and it took a long while ,3 movements and the announcers help before I knew which concerto it was..so I went back to replay my vinyl version..I personally think the balance is just on the light side on these releases.I have heard a lot worse.
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In dc's recent review, he writes "no trills on the horns at the climax ("WHAT!!!"), which is enough to leave this performance alone." Having previously reviewed this myself, I thought I should investigate the allegation of missing trills! In the Seifert (Munich) full score, the horn trills appear at Fig 86 on p. 86, and Fig. 87 on p. 88, in the final bars of 'On the Summit' which speed up into 'The Vision'. The trills are scored for Horns II and IV of the 8 horns required, playing an octave apart. Unlike other horn parts in this section which carry important melodic lines, which are meticulously marked as accented by Strauss, the trills are clearly meant simply to add additional texture rather than cut through the quite dense orchestral fabric which covers them. Below them, for example, the 4 bassoons are given wide-spread bubbling arpeggios and the rest of the woodwinds are supporting an important descending melody in the violins high above the horn trills, with a contrary-motion counter melody in the lower strings. Horns V & VI are doubling the counter melody in the cellos. If played exactly as the score reads, I would not expect the horn trills to be more than just audible in the welter of sound.
Playing a game of Hunt the Trills, I started with Thielemann's MC account with the VPO (cut at a higher level than Luisi's disc), I definitely heard the horn trills adding a frisson to the texture but no more, and if you weren't listening specifically at these points for them, it would register only subliminally. Next I started the Luisi/Dresden disc and set the volume so the levels of the climaxes were about matched with those of the VPO disc. And there were the horn trills, half-left and from near the back of the orchestra. Perhaps they were marginally less audible than the DGG ones because of the greater contribution of the ambience in the Lukaskirche, but to my ears they were at the correct volume for their place in the score's texture at that juncture.
If on other discs, these rather subsidiary horn trills have been given greater prominence, such matters are initially the responsibility of the conductor when balancing the texture in rehearsal and performance. Later,in Post-Production (with or without the conductor's approval)the Producer might move faders up or down to bring out particular sections of the orchestra, so a listener to the recording may often hear things which would never be really audible at a live performance. At any rate, I'm pleased to say that I think that the reputations of Dresden Staatskapelle Horns II and IV remain without stain!
DC also wrote "also there is the incredibly horrible glitch at the big crescendo in "Beim Schlafengehen". I simply cannot live with this and anticipate it every time."
Although I heard no 'glitch' during the repeated hearings of Beim Schlafengehen while reviewing it myself, I have listened again, armed with the score and with a Marigold Signature V2 mat, which significantly focusses the sound and provides much extra detail. On my copy, I can hear no technical faults and no omissions or additions to the score.
Thanks to DC for stimulating me to revisit the Strauss and renew my enjoyment of it, and I certainly will be playing the fascinating game of Hunt The Horn Trills if another Alpine Symphony comes my way!
Cheers, John
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Post by Castor November 2, 2007 (14 of 50)
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DC also wrote "also there is the incredibly horrible glitch at the big crescendo in "Beim Schlafengehen". I simply cannot live with this and anticipate it every time."
Although I heard no 'glitch' during the repeated hearings of Beim Schlafengehen while reviewing it myself, I have listened again, armed with the score and with a Marigold Signature V2 mat, which significantly focusses the sound and provides much extra detail. On my copy, I can hear no technical faults and no omissions or additions to the score.
I hope DC will tell us which recording has these prominent horn trills. Is it perhaps a Sinopolism?
Like you John I can confirm that there is no glitch in 'Beim Schlafengehen'.
I assume that DC must have a faulty copy of the disc.
Also DC's criticism of Luisi's timing for 'Im Abendrot' seemed rather unjustified, so I checked the given timings of some of the recordings I have of this song. There is a obviously a wide variation, but Luisi is certainly not slow, but about average.
della Casa/ Bohm 5.59
Janowitz/Karajan 7.05
Popp/MTT 7.11
Schwarzkopf/Ackermann 7.16
Luisi/Harteros 7.37 (actually 7.24 as timing includes the fade-out )
Studer/Sinopoli 7.40
Isokoski/Janowski 7.41
Brewer/Runnicles 7.41
Flagstad/Sebastien 8.09
Schwarzkopf/Szell 8.20
Fleming/Eschenbach 8.44
Margiano/de Waart 9.05
Norman/Masur 9.49
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Post by ramesh November 2, 2007 (15 of 50)
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Two days ago I received the new Japanese CD transfer [ not SACD ]of the classic Schwarzkopf/ Szell Vier Letzte Lieder; EMI Toshiba TOCE-14052. Although sounding slightly murky and distant compared to the recordings also on the CD which EMI made in the Kingsway Hall, it sounds better than the previous, 1997 remastering. On my system there are essentially no PCM digital artefacts. Well worth getting.
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Post by Tritonus December 4, 2007 (16 of 50)
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Geohominid said:
In dc's recent review, he writes "no trills on the horns at the climax ("WHAT!!!"), which is enough to leave this performance alone." Having previously reviewed this myself, I thought I should investigate the allegation of missing trills! In the Seifert (Munich) full score, the horn trills appear at Fig 86 on p. 86, and Fig. 87 on p. 88, in the final bars of 'On the Summit' which speed up into 'The Vision'. The trills are scored for Horns II and IV of the 8 horns required, playing an octave apart. Unlike other horn parts in this section which carry important melodic lines, which are meticulously marked as accented by Strauss, the trills are clearly meant simply to add additional texture rather than cut through the quite dense orchestral fabric which covers them. Below them, for example, the 4 bassoons are given wide-spread bubbling arpeggios and the rest of the woodwinds are supporting an important descending melody in the violins high above the horn trills, with a contrary-motion counter melody in the lower strings. Horns V & VI are doubling the counter melody in the cellos. If played exactly as the score reads, I would not expect the horn trills to be more than just audible in the welter of sound.
Playing a game of Hunt the Trills, I started with Thielemann's MC account with the VPO (cut at a higher level than Luisi's disc), I definitely heard the horn trills adding a frisson to the texture but no more, and if you weren't listening specifically at these points for them, it would register only subliminally. Next I started the Luisi/Dresden disc and set the volume so the levels of the climaxes were about matched with those of the VPO disc. And there were the horn trills, half-left and from near the back of the orchestra. Perhaps they were marginally less audible than the DGG ones because of the greater contribution of the ambience in the Lukaskirche, but to my ears they were at the correct volume for their place in the score's texture at that juncture.
If on other discs, these rather subsidiary horn trills have been given greater prominence, such matters are initially the responsibility of the conductor when balancing the texture in rehearsal and performance. Later,in Post-Production (with or without the conductor's approval)the Producer might move faders up or down to bring out particular sections of the orchestra, so a listener to the recording may often hear things which would never be really audible at a live performance. At any rate, I'm pleased to say that I think that the reputations of Dresden Staatskapelle Horns II and IV remain without stain!
DC also wrote "also there is the incredibly horrible glitch at the big crescendo in "Beim Schlafengehen". I simply cannot live with this and anticipate it every time."
Although I heard no 'glitch' during the repeated hearings of Beim Schlafengehen while reviewing it myself, I have listened again, armed with the score and with a Marigold Signature V2 mat, which significantly focusses the sound and provides much extra detail. On my copy, I can hear no technical faults and no omissions or additions to the score.
Thanks to DC for stimulating me to revisit the Strauss and renew my enjoyment of it, and I certainly will be playing the fascinating game of Hunt The Horn Trills if another Alpine Symphony comes my way!
Cheers, John
Hi, my name is Andreas Neubronner and I'm the recording producer of the recent Luisi recordings in Dresden. Thanks for all the thoughts on "Alpensinfonie" There are certainly the trills on the recording. But since we're trying to catch the sound as natural as possible (with NO COMPRESSION but natural dynamics) it's possible that listeners have the feeeling that they are almost inaudible.
The Lukuskirche in Dresden is one of the best recording places in the world (especially for such a big setup as the Alpensinfonie is).
For my feeling the combination of Luisi and Staatskapelle is the best one can get right now for Strauss. The orchestra is on the top (comparable to all major leading orchestras in America and Europe). Luisi is a very sensitive and smart musician and matches the needs of Strauss' scores in all respects. His idea of Strauss is possibly less passionate and "pomposo" as the older interpretations are. But his kind of reading Strauss is for my feeling appropriate to the 21th century. I personally love him as a musician and as a person.
All the best regards to the list
Andreas Neubronner
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Post by Peter December 4, 2007 (17 of 50)
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Andreas, how good to hear from you! I've been collecting the series and hope it will include all the minor works as well as the concertos.
Peter
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Post by raffells December 4, 2007 (18 of 50)
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Tritonus said:
Hi, my name is Andreas Neubronner and I'm the recording producer of the recent Luisi recordings in Dresden.
Hi and many thanks.
Its always good to have someone on the inside.
So..Is there any chance you could plese tell us whats due up next in this Strauss sequence.. then after that etc etc..and anything else in sacd this starved community craves..
It really does help some buyers plan their purchases.
Dave
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Post by terence December 5, 2007 (19 of 50)
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Tritonus said:
Hi, my name is Andreas Neubronner and I'm the recording producer of the recent Luisi recordings in Dresden. Thanks for all the thoughts on "Alpensinfonie"
Andreas Neubronner
hi andreas. a simple thank you for these wonderful recordings, which i like enormously, especially in multi-channel format. luisi is IMO one of the great strauss conductors of any era, and i'm making a special trip to see him conduct heldenleben in dresden in march 2008 on the strength of these recordings.
are you in a position to tell us whether the series will continue on SACD, covering all the major orchestral pieces?
with many thanks again, terence.
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terence said:
luisi is IMO one of the great strauss conductors of any era, and i'm making a special trip to see him conduct heldenleben in dresden in march 2008.
Oh Mr terence, you really know how to make a fellow turn green with envy!
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