Post by MichaelO January 23, 2008 (271 of 4131)
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bissie said:
....eeeeh, what about van Beethoven Complete Piano Sonatas with Ronald Brautigam? At least some of them were written before 1800. Also, without any disrespect to the poster, it is very difficult to "apart" the BCJ, who are making a huge amount of SACD recordings for us.
As a matter of fact, 28 out of about 90 SACD:s from BIS are indeed devoted to historically informed performance practise of olde musicke. That is a very much higher percentage than the percentage of olde musicke in BIS's general catalogue, so one could be forgiven for asking, why we actually favour this type of repertoire on the SACD medium the way we do...
I cannot either let the smear about stand unopposed. Indeed, when I first heard her, it was on the first edit of the Bach Wedding Cantata (BIS-CD-1411, rbcd). Since the first edit was on a white-label CD-R, I had no idea of who it was, only that I had basically never heard anything quite that fantastic (the roulade up to high C sharp has to be heard to be believed, talk about pearls on a string!) and I immediately wrote a mail to her, asking what she planned to do in the nearest future, say, 20 years or so. No, I really cannot agree with your review.
However, let's end on a positive note: we are on the verge of finalizing a multi-(and I mean multi)SACD deal with the Haydn Sinfonietta. When the deal is signed and sealed, I can be more forthcoming with the repertoire, but year 2009 may serve as a hint. We have also recorded all the Händel Concerti Grossi in Poland with Arte dei Suonatori and we have a couple of very big negotiations going on - more later....
Best - Robert
Great news about the Handel. I agree Carolyn Sampson has a wonderful soprano voice. I hope to get the Purcell disc soon. Will the Handel concerti grossi be Op.3 or Op.6? Hopefully the later.
Thanks.
Michael
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Post by Collectus January 23, 2008 (272 of 4131)
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bissie said:
....eeeeh, what about van Beethoven Complete Piano Sonatas with Ronald Brautigam? At least some of them were written before 1800. Also, without any disrespect to the poster, it is very difficult to "apart" the BCJ, who are making a huge amount of SACD recordings for us.
As a matter of fact, 28 out of about 90 SACD:s from BIS are indeed devoted to historically informed performance practise of olde musicke. That is a very much higher percentage than the percentage of olde musicke in BIS's general catalogue, so one could be forgiven for asking, why we actually favour this type of repertoire on the SACD medium the way we do...
I cannot either let the smear about Carolyn Sampson stand unopposed. Indeed, when I first heard her, it was on the first edit of the Bach Wedding Cantata (BIS-CD-1411, rbcd). Since the first edit was on a white-label CD-R, I had no idea of who it was, only that I had basically never heard anything quite that fantastic (the roulade up to high C sharp has to be heard to be believed, talk about pearls on a string!) and I immediately wrote a mail to her, asking what she planned to do in the nearest future, say, 20 years or so. No, I really cannot agree with your review.
However, let's end on a positive note: we are on the verge of finalizing a multi-(and I mean multi)SACD deal with the Haydn Sinfonietta. When the deal is signed and sealed, I can be more forthcoming with the repertoire, but year 2009 may serve as a hint. We have also recorded all the Händel Concerti Grossi in Poland with Arte dei Suonatori and we have a couple of very big negotiations going on - more later....
Best - Robert
I absolutely agree with you - the comment about Carolyn Sampson is totally misplaced, in fact complete nonsense - maybe the person writing this needs to clean out their ears! She is superb!
Rob
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Post by Cilea January 23, 2008 (273 of 4131)
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Collectus said:
... the comment about Carolyn Sampson is totally misplaced, in fact complete nonsense - maybe the person writing this needs to clean out their ears! She is superb!
Rob
Oops! I seem to have provoked a few people!
I must be missing something about Sampson. I have read the adulation about her in all the press and in response to my post on this thread, but all I hear is a rather unintelligent singer with a somewhat hard-edged, sour and often vibrato-laden voice whose approach to sacred music in particular is very (shall we say) "Romantic" rather than Baroque or Classical. I have listened again to her in response to the responses on this thread and I just cannot hear anything pleasant about her voice or about the artistic quality of her interpretations.
A good test is to compare her with other acknowledged Early Music stars such as Dorothee Mields, Monika Mauch and Sweden's own, very lovely Susanne Ryden. These three sound nothing like Sampson. They certainly don't have the sagging quality Sampson often (not always) has.
Another good test of those who lavish praise on Sampson is the kind of music they generally listen to. As I have said on my profile, I listen to nothing post-1800 (a slight exaggeration, since I do listen to late Haydn) and what I do not say on my profile is that I listen to nothing pre-1800 that is not on period instruments. I think I thus bring a certain point of view to my listening that others may not bring. In other words, Sampson may sound fine to those who like or are used to the traditional modern opera house sound, but to a true "Early Music bore" like me she sounds quite out of place in Baroque repertory - particularly sacred music - and does not seem to be following the aesthetic ideals the instrumentalists accompanying her are following - rather like the effect of William Christie with his superbly Baroque-stylish Arts Florissants and utterly modern (read "Verdian") singers in opera.
Another interesting thing to note is the personal vituperation inherent in this responses objecting to my comment about Sampson. I was not kind about her voice, but that is a musical opinion and does not invite people to attack my personality, morals, tastes or sensory faculties. Bissie voiced his disagreement in a courteous way (apart from labelling my - to my mind - well-considered opinion a "smear"!) and did not attack my character or my faculties, for which I thank him. Of course, he has the moral superiority of the upper hand since he decides which artists he will record!!
As for the Haydn Sinfonietta Wien and Arte dei Suonatori - fantastic news and good for old Bissie! I will look forward to the new releases this year with happy impatience.
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bissie said:
....eeeeh, what about van Beethoven Complete Piano Sonatas with Ronald Brautigam?
I'm afraid Beethoven of any period does not do it for me. Sorry. I do like the Bis Mozart fortepiano series a lot, though.
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Post by Daland January 24, 2008 (276 of 4131)
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Osbert Parsley said:
Another good test of those who lavish praise on Sampson is the kind of music they generally listen to. As I have said on my profile, I listen to nothing post-1800 (a slight exaggeration, since I do listen to late Haydn) and what I do not say on my profile is that I listen to nothing pre-1800 that is not on period instruments.
How can someone so narrow-minded be expected to be taken seriously? Your musical experience is far too limited to make any comparisons. I would rather trust someone with a wider musical horizon who does not suffer from tunnel vision.
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Post by Peter January 24, 2008 (277 of 4131)
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Daland said:
How can someone so narrow-minded be expected to be taken seriously? Your musical experience is far too limited to make any comparisons. I would rather trust someone with a wider musical horizon who does not suffer from tunnel vision.
What's the aural equivalent of "tunnel vision"? grin
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Post by raffells January 24, 2008 (278 of 4131)
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Peter said:
What's the aural equivalent of "tunnel vision"? grin
MONO ?
vituperation ,? The process of taking vitamins pills to help overcome modern music fatigue syndrom.
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Daland said:
How can someone so narrow-minded be expected to be taken seriously? Your musical experience is far too limited to make any comparisons. I would rather trust someone with a wider musical horizon who does not suffer from tunnel vision.
Daland,
What is narrow-minded about listening, deeply and constantly, to 800 years of music as against what the majority of people who respond as you have done really listen to - about 200 years and mostly limited to a restricted Classical "holy" canon of about 50 works?
I mean it: examine your conscience: how often have you listened, for example, to a 17th century oratorio, a 14th century isorhythmic motet, any eighteenth-century German lieder other than by Mozart or Haydn? Have you ever compared different recordings of Parisian organa or explored the repertory of Troubadour songs? And if you have listened to any of these recently, how much have you understood or made any effort to understand about what you are hearing and why it was written the way it is? And, can you be sure that you haven't listened and judged the performance with the sound-memory of some 19th century Romantic or 20th century music in the back of your mind? If you like Carolyn Sampson in Baroque music, I suggest you are. The reviews you have posted go no further back than Mozart, and the one period instrument Mozart recording review you have posted makes plainly anti-period instrument comments (eg: Telarc have managed to make even period instruments sound "seductive".)
Those who say they like all music don't really LIKE any music at all. Those who attack people like me for being narrow-minded often do so from their own perspective of tunnel vision - that is, because I don't like what you love I must be crazy.
And, as I also said in my previous post - the vituperation is extraordinary. I shall not participate further in this forum since the expression of opinions sadly leads to personal attacks (this time about my narrow-mindedness and my supposedly limited musical experience). I thought this thread was all about Bis.
Farewell and keep up the good work, Bissie (even if some of it is with the undeserving Carolyn Sampson)!
However, one final parting shot: why is a modern-sounding singer, using all the modern heavily braced techniques and heavy vibrato focused mainly on power rather than the pre-Romantic ideals of flexibility and agility, acceptable when her or his style is completely at odds with the style of the accompanying orchestra or instruments seeking an historically informed 18th century sound? It's not logical and aurally its effect is illogical.
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Post by Pigito January 24, 2008 (280 of 4131)
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Osbert Parsley said:
Daland,
What is narrow-minded about listening, deeply and constantly, to 800 years of music as against what the majority of people who respond as you have done really listen to - about 200 years and mostly limited to a restricted Classical "holy" canon of about 50 works?
I agree. I do not restrict myself to pre 1800 music like Osbert Parsley. I like lots of the "holy" canon of Romantic music he mentions but I also like to listen to earlier stuff. Mainly baroque like Handel and Bach. But, even though I am no expert in baroque music myself, I respect the opinions of those who are specialists. I think we would all agree Osbert Parsley sounds like he is a specialist in old music with period instruments just like Daland seems to be another kind of specialist in later music? Maybe we should listen to Osbert's opinions a little more calmly with this in mind, even if we (I) do not necessarily agree with him - and even if he also sounds a bit agitated and defensive.
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