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I've acquired a good number of SACD/CD hybrids in my collection of CDs, and am now interested in actually hearing the SACD layers! So I would like to jump into the SACD world and buy a new player. This would be for just a two-channel set-up (at least for a good while). I've seen mention of the Marantz 8001, NAD M5, Music Hall Maverick. And then, of course, all of the various universal players. Any advice/recommendations for something in the $1000-1500 range?
On a related note, the NAD web page makes mention that they separate the DSD and PCM audio signals, vice converting the DSD stream into PCM. Is this truly an advantage, or is this just a marketing gimmick? Thanks, all, for any advice you may have for a newbe.
John
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Post by raffells January 27, 2007 (2 of 10)
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john_adams said:
I've acquired a good number of SACD/CD hybrids in my collection of CDs, and am now interested in actually hearing the SACD layers! So I would like to jump into the SACD world and buy a new player. This would be for just a two-channel set-up (at least for a good while). I've seen mention of the Marantz 8001, NAD M5, Music Hall Maverick. And then, of course, all of the various universal players. Any advice/recommendations for something in the $1000-1500 range?
On a related note, the NAD web page makes mention that they separate the DSD and PCM audio signals, vice converting the DSD stream into PCM. Is this truly an advantage, or is this just a marketing gimmick? Thanks, all, for any advice you may have for a newbe.
John
Well then true anser is a bit of both.
It all depends on what level you are trying to achieve.
The Nad is a very good value player and if you like it Go for it.
All players sound dfferent for many reasons including what you connect them with.?...A degree of Marketing is always relevant in all manufacturers comments within legal framework..
All player sound better many many hours later (called running in and it applies especially to sacd and dvda_which are seperate circuits on a player normally_)
There are different levels of PCM.192/24 is equal to or better that DSD in some areas and poorer in others..
The quality of the discs (recording engeineer / mastering is probably more important...
There are plemty of machines that give good and different sonics at that price range..Test before you buy...You may be sorry you have a number of Cds now..? My advice...Ignore advice...listen for yourself..dave
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Post by raffells January 27, 2007 (3 of 10)
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john_adams said:
I've acquired a good number of SACD/CD hybrids in my collection of CDs, and am now interested in actually hearing the SACD layers! So I would like to jump into the SACD world and buy a new player. This would be for just a two-channel set-up (at least for a good while). I've seen mention of the Marantz 8001, NAD M5, Music Hall Maverick. And then, of course, all of the various universal players. Any advice/recommendations for something in the $1000-1500 range?
On a related note, the NAD web page makes mention that they separate the DSD and PCM audio signals, vice converting the DSD stream into PCM. Is this truly an advantage, or is this just a marketing gimmick? Thanks, all, for any advice you may have for a newbe.
John
Well then true answer is a bit of both.
It all depends on what level you are trying to achieve.
The Nad is a very good value player and if you like it Go for it.
All players sound dfferent for many reasons including what you connect them with.?...A degree of Marketing is always relevant in all manufacturers comments within legal framework..
All player sound better many many hours later (called running in and it applies especially to sacd and dvda_which are seperate circuits on a player normally_)
There are different levels of PCM.192/24 is equal to or better that DSD in some areas and poorer in others..
The quality of the discs (recording engeineer / mastering is probably more important...
There are plemty of machines that give good and different sonics at that price range..Test before you buy...You may be sorry you have a number of Cds now..? My advice...Ignore advice...listen for yourself..dave
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Post by raffells January 27, 2007 (4 of 10)
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john_adams said:
I've acquired a good number of SACD/CD hybrids in my collection of CDs, and am now interested in actually hearing the SACD layers! So I would like to jump into the SACD world and buy a new player. This would be for just a two-channel set-up (at least for a good while). I've seen mention of the Marantz 8001, NAD M5, Music Hall Maverick. And then, of course, all of the various universal players. Any advice/recommendations for something in the $1000-1500 range?
On a related note, the NAD web page makes mention that they separate the DSD and PCM audio signals, vice converting the DSD stream into PCM. Is this truly an advantage, or is this just a marketing gimmick? Thanks, all, for any advice you may have for a newbe.
John
Well then true answer is a bit of both.
It all depends on what level you are trying to achieve.
The Nad is a very good value player and if you like it Go for it.
All players sound dfferent for many reasons including what you connect them with.?...A degree of Marketing is always relevant in all manufacturers comments within legal framework..
All player sound better many many hours later (called running in and it applies especially to sacd and dvda_which are seperate circuits on a player normally_)
There are different levels of PCM.192/24 is equal to or better that DSD in some areas and poorer in others..
The quality of the discs (recording engeineer / mastering is probably more important...
There are plemty of machines that give good and different sonics at that price range..Test before you buy...You may be sorry you have a number of Cds now..? My advice...Ignore advice...listen for yourself..dave
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john_adams said:
On a related note, the NAD web page makes mention that they separate the DSD and PCM audio signals, vice converting the DSD stream into PCM. Is this truly an advantage, or is this just a marketing gimmick? Thanks, all, for any advice you may have for a newbe.
John
This is six months late but I want to relate my experience with dsd vs pcm. I have a Sony XA 9000 ES. Using bass management and adjusting the player to compensate for differing speaker distances this player is pretty good in MultiChannel. The player converts to PCM to do these functions. Then a friend and I decided to actually move my speakers so they are all equidistant from the listening position and use the DSD Direct setting.
Oh WOW! What a difference in the clarity and beauty of the treble!
As to whether a recording is better in DSD or PCM, a recording engineer I had the privelege of talking to whose company produces both PCM and DSD recordings said that intially to him, PCM seemed more detailed - until he realized that it also seemed more detailed than the microphone feed!
The DSD according to him sounded rather more like the microphone feed.
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Post by bholz June 18, 2007 (6 of 10)
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I would however recommend the M55. I've had this for almost a year now. It has some minor quirks, but plays everything very well. The reson for the recommendation of the M55 vs the M5, is that the M55 is a Universal player. The M5 is an SACD/CD player only.
I know this is an SACD site, but Warner thru the BecauseSoundMatters.com site is saying that they will be making more DVD-As available. Given the current state of SACD (which is my preferred format by a long-shot) it might be wise to hedge your bets.
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bholz said:
Warner thru the BecauseSoundMatters.com site is saying that they will be making more DVD-As available. Given the current state of SACD (which is my preferred format by a long-shot) it might be wise to hedge your bets.
God, and I was hoping that issue had been laid to rest.
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Post by Claude June 19, 2007 (8 of 10)
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I would not count too much on a flood of DVD-A releases. The Warner reissue program seems to focus on vinyl:
"Team BSM appreciates all your feedback on DVD-A and vinyl. We decided to do a soft launch of the site which meant the DVD-A was not going to be in the first pass. The original list of DVD-A is going to be titles that are already availiable but I can tell you based on your feedback I have already started to put wheels in motion to discuss more releases. Unfortunately there is a great deal of expense going in and re-creating 5.1 mixes. The titles that get 5.1 treatment will need a much bigger over-all release plan in order for this to make sense."
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Post by Jay-dub June 19, 2007 (9 of 10)
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I can recommend the Marantz SA8001, having had almost nothing but positive experiences with mine. I have not yet heard anything on it that I can even tentatively identify as a fault in its sound quality.
The aspects of its design that give me confidence that it was engineered to an audiophile standard include:
a) the DAC chip converts PCM signals to a high-bitrate form for conversion at a depth of several bits (to minimize added noise in the processing) rather than at one bit (as some cheaper CD players do), but takes DSD signals and converts them directly with no digital processing;
b) the motor's vibrations are damped to the point where I cannot feel the unit vibrate when it plays (at least for 90% of my disks);
c) the analogue stages use discrete electronics rather than integrated circuits;
d) the power supply is a toroidal transformer, which doesn't hum as EI transformers do and shouldn't radiate EM fields that potentially interfere with other electronics;
e) the features are restricted to those that can be performed with a clock at a simple multiple of 44.1 kHz (i.e. no digital input, no DVD capability) -- this means that there was no need in clock design to compromise on jitter for the sake of flexibility;
f) it is a solid closed metallic box that should screen out all external fields.
As for features, it has one that to my mind is much more valuable than DVA-A capability: the internal headphone jack. The jack on my integrated amplifier has a faint but audible power-line hum, which I think is a fairly common problem and one that is very hard to eliminate in separate components without obsessively tweaking your power source and grounding. The jack on my Marantz is totally quiet and sounds great to me.
Unlike universal players, this is as easy to use as any CD player. It has a nice display for the text information on SACD's. One feature that I would not want to give up is that the display can be turned off, so that I can listen to a CD in a dark room without seeing the seconds tick off.
There is a bizarre switch in the back that disables the remote control when it is set to "external" and that is very poorly documented in the manual. Beside that, my main complaint is that it takes a while for disks to load. Also, there is no switchable low-pass filter to use on those few SACD's that seem to have too much high frequency noise.
If you choose a universal player for listening to music, you're going to want to make sure it's set up right for the disk you're playing, without turning on the TV. I'd suggest getting one with a front-panel display that answers all the following questions:
-- Is the video processing turned off?
-- Is the program being read a stereo or multichannel one?
-- Is the audio being output in a downmix or as originally read?
-- Is the encoding format LPCM, lossy compression, or SACD?
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Post by Julien June 22, 2007 (10 of 10)
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Dear Jeffrey, if you had a Sennheiser HD580 or HD600-650, you would hear a huge difference changing the cable of the headphones with a Mobius or Equinox. Anyone I know hears it. Change the power cable of the player and the headphone amp, also the power alimentation, and the difference is very big.
On another thread you were talking of the Marantz 8001. I had the equivalent (8400), that was already a lot worse sounding than the SA-11, and even the SA-15. And still the SA-11, which I believed was a blow for the price, was awful compared to the not even burnt-in Cary 306 SACD player. Which is why I bought the latter, even thoough it was 2.5 times more expensive.
Marantz players sound warm, but never open nor airy. Especially the 8000 series of course, even though they are still a lot better than cheap DVD players.
The problem is: the better the equipment, the bigger the difference. Some say the sound of a system is equivalent to the sound of the worst component in it, which is partly true.
You won't hear much of a difference with HD280 for sure, should it be players, cables, power etc. I see you have Rotel and 704, which should allow you to hear much of a difference. Try the same experience on top hi-fi equipment, and the difference is so big you will believe that anything makes a difference in sound reproduction. Good equipment, like good instruments, is extremely sensible.
I forgot: Marantz players are usually very loud playing SACDs. Common problem with SACD though, but on my Cary, while spinning an SACD without turning on the sound, you have to stick you ear to the player surface to hear its noise. I couldn't stand my Marantz 8400 everytime I had to listen at night for that.
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