Post by Peter May 1, 2006 (21 of 37)
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mandel said:
Everytime I buy a RBCD I say: "This bloody well better not appear on SACD next month" :p
That's why I'm holding off buying Gergiev's Prokofiev box and Freire's Brahms Piano concertos for a start. At some stage they will be issued in some hi-res form or other so I'll wait.
I'd really have liked a set of Prokofiev, but I don't really "need" another RBCD Brahms cycle as I have Gilels, Barenboim and all the Curzons (as well as Rube's 1 on LS SACD), but as a modern SACD issue Freire (who has had excellent reviews) would be a definite possible purchase.
I do still buy RBCDs and listen to them, quite a lot of historic recordings; I couldn't do without Edwin Fischer's Bach or Schnabel's Beethoven, or all my Furtwangler recordings. Pristine Audio has recently issued Jensen's 1952 Decca recording of Nielsen's 6th in an excellent transfer so I'll have to buy that. I've also fallen in love with Fremeaux's jazz issues again very well transferred to CD (www.fremeaux.com). I still buy RBCDs of repertoire which I feel has too small a chance of appearing on SACD; my next purchase will include Toch's symphonies on cpo.
I hope my SACD purchases will be at least as satisfying artistically as RBCD versions I already have (e.g. Schubert's Quintet) if not more so, otherwise they're of repertoire I don't have (Schulhoff and Martinu chamber music, any Alia Vox release, Weingartner orchestral music).
While I like Bohm's Decca recording of Bruckner 4 a lot, I haven't bought the SACD as I've bought it too many times already, once on LP and twice on CD, it's very expensive, and I suspect it was originally a surround recording and will probably eventually equip myself for that at some stage.
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Post by nickc May 1, 2006 (22 of 37)
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Peter said:
That's why I'm holding off buying Gergiev's Prokofiev box and Freire's Brahms Piano concertos for a start. At some stage they will be issued in some hi-res form or other so I'll wait.
I'd really have liked a set of Prokofiev, but I don't really "need" another RBCD Brahms cycle as I have Gilels, Barenboim and all the Curzons (as well as Rube's 1 on LS SACD), but as a modern SACD issue Freire (who has had excellent reviews) would be a definite possible purchase.
I do still buy RBCDs and listen to them, quite a lot of historic recordings; I couldn't do without Edwin Fischer's Bach or Schnabel's Beethoven, or all my Furtwangler recordings. Pristine Audio has recently issued Jensen's 1952 Decca recording of Nielsen's 6th in an excellent transfer so I'll have to buy that. I've also fallen in love with Fremeaux's jazz issues again very well transferred to CD (www.fremeaux.com). I still buy RBCDs of repertoire which I feel has too small a chance of appearing on SACD; my next purchase will include Toch's symphonies on cpo.
I hope my SACD purchases will be at least as satisfying artistically as RBCD versions I already have (e.g. Schubert's Quintet) if not more so, otherwise they're of repertoire I don't have (Schulhoff and Martinu chamber music, any Alia Vox release, Weingartner orchestral music).
While I like Bohm's Decca recording of Bruckner 4 a lot, I haven't bought the SACD as I've bought it too many times already, once on LP and twice on CD, it's very expensive, and I suspect it was originally a surround recording and will probably eventually equip myself for that at some stage.
I just saw the Freire Brahms at Discurio in Melbourne this afternoon - double disc for $31 (that's fantastic for Australian prices!).
I am tempted beacuse unfortunately I'm not as sanguine as you Peter about possible hi-rez release.
Are Ramesh's Punyversal still releasing SACDs?
I think we all have to admit if something is released on RBCD it'll never be released as an SACD later now.
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Post by Peter May 1, 2006 (23 of 37)
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nickc said:
I just saw the Freire Brahms at Discurio in Melbourne this afternoon - double disc for $31 (that's fantastic for Australian prices!).
I am tempted beacuse unfortunately I'm not as sanguine as you Peter about possible hi-rez release.
Are Ramesh's Punyversal still releasing SACDs?
I think we all have to admit if something is released on RBCD it'll never be released as an SACD later now.
Perhaps not SACD, but, in the far distant future as a download to solid state storage.....or listen on demand through a connection in the back of my head!
I still feel they'll appear sooner than that, though either as SACD or a relaunch of DVD-A. It doesn't make sense not to issue (new) recordings at their best possible resolution and whilst I can understand why some smaller companies (like Dutton, who issued two, or Supraphon) would want to wait, Universal and Sony/BMG seem be run by headless chickens at the moment, and wasn't EMI fighting off purchase by another company? The LS website hasn't been updated to include the last tranche of releases; I wonder why?
Perhaps Punyversal is devoting all its resources to one of the high definition video things for which I'm not prepared to be a guinea-pig. They'll rue the day they didn't release issues like the Prokofiev and Brahms on SACD.
PS If you go to the Decca website it's updated for May, and the Russell Watson album has the SACD tab under it, though it's not an SACD. Shan't lose any sleep over that as it's not one I would buy. I have jumped to the conclusion that it may be too anodyne.
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Post by Rick SF May 1, 2006 (24 of 37)
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terence said:
like many readers of this site, i suspect, i'm a total SACD convert. is the sound better than RBCD? is it really MUCH better? yes, yes, and yes to any other questions like it. there really is no argument in my opinion.
there is, of course, a difficulty, and i'm sure others on this site are all too aware of it.
it is this. HOW DO I NOW VIEW MY RBCD COLLECTION? (in my case thousands of them).
to put it bluntly, most of the time i can't bear listening to them any longer. compared to SACD it's like looking at the music through the wrong end of a telescope. i get limited (sometimes very limited) pleasure from it.
VERY occasionally the need to listen to a particular performance or work will send me back to the RBCD library, but rarely.
have any other readers any reflections on this particular affliction? is this a passing phase? will i grow out of it?
all those CDs lined up on my shelving doing nothing. as elvis costello once put it - "all that useless beauty"....
Terence:
Have you heard any of the modded SACD players? The reason I ask is that I too pretty much had given up on CDs, no longer finding them enjoyable. Then I upgraded to a VSE Level 5 modded Sony 9000 hoping to improve my SACD playback. It certainly did that. But the big surprise was the dramatic improvement on CDs. SACD still sounds better in that it sounds more holographic and transparent. And, of course, there is the benefit of multichannel. But CD now get surprisingly close and sounds extremely musical to me. This never was the case for me before. Even on some very expensive CD players I've heard.
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what I hated about CD really had more to do with jitter, intermodulation distortion, etc. than with 44.1/16 PCM. And I'm sure many of the other modders besides VSE offer good results.
I would recommend checking out some of the modded units before doing anything drastic like selling off your CD collection. I sold off about half my collection when I moved a few years back and now regret it.
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Post by Peter May 2, 2006 (25 of 37)
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Rick SF said:
Terence:
Have you heard any of the modded SACD players? The reason I ask is that I too pretty much had given up on CDs, no longer finding them enjoyable. Then I upgraded to a VSE Level 5 modded Sony 9000 hoping to improve my SACD playback. It certainly did that. But the big surprise was the dramatic improvement on CDs. SACD still sounds better in that it sounds more holographic and transparent. And, of course, there is the benefit of multichannel. But CD now get surprisingly close and sounds extremely musical to me. This never was the case for me before. Even on some very expensive CD players I've heard.
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what I hated about CD really had more to do with jitter, intermodulation distortion, etc. than with 44.1/16 PCM. And I'm sure many of the other modders besides VSE offer good results.
I would recommend checking out some of the modded units before doing anything drastic like selling off your CD collection. I sold off about half my collection when I moved a few years back and now regret it.
Terence, you may be interested in this:
http://www.chevinaudio.co.uk/html/upgrades.htm
http://www.chevinaudio.co.uk/html/sacd.htm
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Post by Peter May 2, 2006 (26 of 37)
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The June issue of "hi-fi world" has several excellent articles about modding CD players, the future of hi-res/SACD and a review of Stax earspeakers.
"the quality promised by hi res was compromised by those that should have appreciated it most - the music business..."
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Post by akiralx May 2, 2006 (27 of 37)
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Peter said:
That's why I'm holding off buying Gergiev's Prokofiev box and Freire's Brahms Piano concertos for a start. At some stage they will be issued in some hi-res form or other so I'll wait.
I'd really have liked a set of Prokofiev, but I don't really "need" another RBCD Brahms cycle as I have Gilels, Barenboim and all the Curzons (as well as Rube's 1 on LS SACD), but as a modern SACD issue Freire (who has had excellent reviews) would be a definite possible purchase.
While I like Bohm's Decca recording of Bruckner 4 a lot, I haven't bought the SACD as I've bought it too many times already, once on LP and twice on CD, it's very expensive, and I suspect it was originally a surround recording and will probably eventually equip myself for that at some stage.
Sadly I doubt the Freire Brahms will get an SACD issue, Universal have more or less given up on high res. I would recommend it though, I have enjoyed the set a lot. But get the Zimerman/Rattle Brahms 1 as well.
I have reviewed the Boehm Bruckner 4, like others have said if you have the Decca Legends CD you are virtually there - though having auditioned both in an A/B comparison there is a discernible difference. Fortunately I had never heard it before buying the SACD...
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Post by Peter May 2, 2006 (28 of 37)
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akiralx said:
Sadly I doubt the Freire Brahms will get an SACD issue, Universal have more or less given up on high res. I would recommend it though, I have enjoyed the set a lot. But get the Zimerman/Rattle Brahms 1 as well.
I have reviewed the Boehm Bruckner 4, like others have said if you have the Decca Legends CD you are virtually there - though having auditioned both in an A/B comparison there is a discernible difference. Fortunately I had never heard it before buying the SACD...
The rumour in the mag mentioned above is that the Moody Blues albums will have been Universal's last SACD releases. I can't say I'm surprised.
I'll still buy RBCDs of repertoire I haven't already got, or historic recordings by artists I enjoy. I've just ordered an Ondine CD of music by Iiro Rantala and no, I'd never heard of him or his music, but it sounds interesting though I'd rather it had been issued on SACD!
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Post by seth May 2, 2006 (29 of 37)
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Peter said:
The rumour in the mag mentioned above is that the Moody Blues albums will have been Universal's last SACD releases. I can't say I'm surprised.
But Teresa told us that "Universal is planning on 150 SACD releases in 2006 evenly divided between Classic Rock and Classical music." More Mercury Living Presense SACDs must be due out any day now since she is also sure that "Mercury Living Presense SACDs will continue until every title is only SACD which at this slow pace should only take like 20 years!" How could she be wrong?
/showthread/11471/11514/y#11514
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Post by terence May 11, 2006 (30 of 37)
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mandel said:
Have you tried listening to your CDs upmixed with DTS:Neo (much better than Dolby Prologic 2) rather than just through 2 speakers? I find listening to my CDs in 6.1 very pleasurable and DTS:Neo produces a good soundstage for classical music. You inevitably don't get the same immersive effect you get with a real surround recording but it helps.
mandel i finally got round to working out what you meant by this and giving it a go. on my ARCAM AVP700 pre-amp processor it's called Neo: 6 Music.
initial results are tremendous! yes I KNOW i'm being hypocritical, as elsewhere on this site i've expressed scepticism about SACDs which achieve a form of MC through "artificial" computer tweaking of basic stereo originals.
i guess that's what's happening here too, but i don't care - the point of my original post is that beside my SACDs my RBCD collection was sounding extremely flat, tired and jaded, and basically unappealing. this worried me.
just now i listened again in Neo: 6 to bits of domingo's new puccini recording (edgar, DG, no SACD available) and the difference in impact was really striking - MUCH more involving, as though brought back to life again after yesterday's rather dispiriting RBCD experience with it.
so mandel i simply must just sincerely thank you - it seems you have given a whole new lease of life to my large RBCD collection, and rendered it again plausible for me to buy them.
incidentally, in Neo: 6 what does it mean when it says "up to 6 full-band channels" being available? do they mean 5 + subwoofer?
and how would choosing DOLBY PRO LOGIC II/IIx (also available to me) differ? it says that gives me a "5 or 7 channel output"? again, where does the sub fit into this?
i'm drowning in jargon, but i'm very happy....
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