Post by Luukas August 20, 2014 (1 of 17)
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BBC Music Magazine gave five stars, and I totally agree. What do you think?
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I don't support artists like Gergiev who support Putin's imperialist wars of aggression abroad and authoritarian oppression and antiliberal practices at home, so I have not heard and will never hear this and thus don't and won't have an opinion about its musical worth.
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Post by pgmdir August 20, 2014 (3 of 17)
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Polarius T said:
I don't support artists like Gergiev who support Putin's imperialist wars of aggression abroad and authoritarian oppression and antiliberal practices at home, so I have not heard and will never hear this and thus don't and won't have an opinion about its musical worth.
I already had all of his Mahlers and many others before the present issues. I must admit that I am disappointed in Gergiev's statements, and I have been less inclined to listen to the discs I have. Nevertheless, this is a very good 9, plus his 7 and 8 are quite enjoyable. Someday he may have a rational explanation for his rather unexpected support of Vlad the Impaler. Or admit to simply desiring to keep his St. Petersburg gig.
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Post by fausto K August 20, 2014 (4 of 17)
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Polarius T said:
I don't support artists like Gergiev who support Putin's imperialist wars of aggression abroad and authoritarian oppression and antiliberal practices at home, so I have not heard and will never hear this and thus don't and won't have an opinion about its musical worth.
You have a fundamental right to your own opinion, naturally, but I personally find that mixing politics with music (which Gergiev *doesn't* do, perhaps the reason why he is lambasted) is vulnerable to high-minded moralism, or even propaganda.
I was glad that recently I witnessed Gergiev (w/ his Mariinsky orchestra) live here in Munich, performing a bracing Sacre du Printemps and giving an absolutely stunning rendition of Stravinsky's Concerto for Piano and Winds with Daniil Trifonov behind the keyboard. Should we now also boycott Trifonov, a rising star, since he has allied himself so closely to Gergiev? If one thinks one should, one should of course be consistent, and start throwing away all one's recordings by Karl Böhm: the man joined the Nazis, precisely in order to further his career.
Boycotting art because of perceived politics is of the same order as using art for political ends, as the Nazis did. A dangerous practice.
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Post by Fugue August 20, 2014 (5 of 17)
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fausto K said:
You have a fundamental right to your own opinion, naturally, but I personally find that mixing politics with music (which Gergiev *doesn't* do, perhaps the reason why he is lambasted) is vulnerable to high-minded moralism, or even propaganda.
I was glad that recently I witnessed Gergiev (w/ his Mariinsky orchestra) live here in Munich, performing a bracing Sacre du Printemps and giving an absolutely stunning rendition of Stravinsky's Concerto for Piano and Winds with Daniil Trifonov behind the keyboard. Should we now also boycott Trifonov, a rising star, since he has allied himself so closely to Gergiev? If one thinks one should, one should of course be consistent, and start throwing away all one's recordings by Karl Böhm: the man joined the Nazis, precisely in order to further his career.
Boycotting art because of perceived politics is of the same order as using art for political ends, as the Nazis did. A dangerous practice.
+1 Let's keep politics out of this forum.
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Post by lennyw August 21, 2014 (6 of 17)
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Polarius T said:
I don't support artists like Gergiev who support Putin's imperialist wars of aggression abroad and authoritarian oppression and antiliberal practices at home, so I have not heard and will never hear this and thus don't and won't have an opinion about its musical worth.
Which is why I don't listen to any recordings by the European Union Youth Orchestra...
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Post by Lute August 21, 2014 (7 of 17)
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fausto K said:
Boycotting art because of perceived politics is of the same order as using art for political ends, as the Nazis did. A dangerous practice.
I cannot agree that PolarisT's boycotting is of the same order as Gergiev using his powerful position in the Russian machinery to assist in the persecution of innocent people!!
And...speaking of Nazis, Karajan joined the Nazi party not once... but TWICE!!
However... after the war, these German conductors showed remorse and publicly denounced Nazi policies. Whether or not that was enough is for individuals to judge for themselves.
The difference and the problem with Gergiev is that he currently and openly supports Putin and the Russian government's atrocious policies and behavior.
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Post by fausto K August 21, 2014 (8 of 17)
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Lute said:
I cannot agree that PolarisT's boycotting is of the same order as Gergiev using his powerful position in the Russian machinery to assist in the persecution of innocent people!!
...
I didn't make that analogy. The analogy was between boycotting art for political reasons and using art for political ends.
You surreptitiously assume that Gergiev uses art for political purposes. That's not the case; it's rather the other way around, if at all he does that. The most you can say is that he's merely of the cunning kind such as Böhm and Karajan, in using his network to further the cause of music. And he's no different than a Jaap van Zweden, say, who tries to win over millionaires to donate money to the Dallas SO (and you don't want to know how they earned their millions).
We should be careful in judging Gergiev (and others) as to his **perceived** political misdemeanour, or his lack of political action, for that matter. You might not agree with his views, political, moral, or otherwise, but that shouldn't get in the way of judging him for what he achieves in the sphere of aesthetics. Are you also boycotting your butcher's because you think he doesn't appear to be supportive enough of transgenders, say? Moralism is a slippery slope.
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Post by Claude August 21, 2014 (9 of 17)
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You can boycott whoever you want, but you don't need to tell us every time.
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Post by Lute August 21, 2014 (10 of 17)
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fausto K said:
I didn't make that analogy.
You were implying that. Who else is talking about boycotting on this thread!!??
Of course everyone is free to make their own decisions and speak openly about such issues. If members here want to continue buying and listening to Gergiev's performances, they are in their right to do that.
Others are expressing their concern over Gergiev's behavior on serious issues... and they are free to express such concern.
The troubles that transgenders or the people living in Missouri face are just as important. But...notice the difference with Missouri. There we can hear both sides of the issue.
In Russia, we only hear one side and... Gergiev is one of that side's most prominent advocates.
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