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I am yet to add a sub to my system and I wouldn't say my speakers (MA BX2/BXC/BXFX) are full range, still, most of my listening times I believe I get enough bass. It may be because the fronts and center are placed quite close to front walls and corners of the room (3-10 cm) and some say the resulting low frequencies aren't OK, because they're due to walls reverberations and not to the capacity of speakers.
The problem is that, in my room configuration, I can't change speaker positioning, so I'll have to live with that - and adding a sub will bring even more/deeper bass, resulting in boominess (am I correct?) which is not something I'd want, especially that I live in a block of apartments and don't want to bother the neighbours. Maybe the room correction from the receiver will take care of that and also maybe I'll get better sound quality overall (if I'd add a sub) but, atm, I'm still undecided (it's also a problem of money, and of wife factor - what? another big box in my living room? no way). But I guess it's alreay off topic.
I got the idea, most of the SACDs with classical music are just recorded like that and there's no way to improve on sound surround.
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Post by Iain July 9, 2014 (32 of 40)
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Kal Rubinson said:
Nonsense. The possibilities are improper setup/configuration of your system and/or unreasonable expectations. ...
That's quite a harsh assessment. It's all down to personal preference and an industry that doesn't have any idea as to what they're doing.
Whose bright idea was it to foist this rubbish on to their customers? After all, if Jared Sachs can do it right, the rest of the lot should be able to as well.
BTW, where does the ITU standard fit in all of this?
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Post by Lute July 9, 2014 (33 of 40)
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alexandru27 said:
I got the idea, most of the SACDs with classical music are just recorded like that and there's no way to improve on sound surround.
Basically, that's it in a nutshell. Most fans of Classical music (who listen in 5.1) prefer ambient use of the rear speakers. There is another group of surround sound enthusiasts who want to be completely immersed in the music. They sometimes derogatorily refer to such ambient recordings as "Wide Stereo."
But I agree with AmonRa's comment... "Even an ambiance only classical MCH recording WILL give a much more realistic soundscape than stereo. Two reasons: mid speaker makes the front image much more solid, and the (low level) rear/side signals give "air" to the image. The difference is surprisingly big. Most orchestral MCH recordings have only ambiance in the back channels, unless some spatial effects are used in the score."
The importance of the Center Speaker shouldn't be underestimated. When properly used, it not only helps open up the soundstage but also gives more focus to the individual voices of the soloists, orchestra, etc... It might take a while to fully appreciate this type of surround sound, but it does provide the most natural listening experience.
Having said that, I am also a fan of aggressive surround mixes. It's a lot of fun to explore them.
I definitely second Iain's comment...
"Also, here's a great resource for titles with aggressive surround mixes:
/showthread/87526//y?page=first"
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Iain said:
That's quite a harsh assessment. It's all down to personal preference and an industry that doesn't have any idea as to what they're doing.
Whose bright idea was it to foist this rubbish on to their customers? After all, if Jared Sachs can do it right, the rest of the lot should be able to as well.
BTW, where does the ITU standard fit in all of this?
It wasn't mean as harsh but forceful in order to cut through the continued silliness about "cheaper" players having issues with different layers/tracks and the implication that playing one layer can be influenced by another.
So, his problems could be due to setup options in the processor which might differ for different sources/formats.
Also, his problems could be due his expectation that all multichannel recordings are mixed and balanced to suit his preferences.
ITU? Dunno. Did he bring up his speaker placements?
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Post by kansub July 9, 2014 (35 of 40)
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My Sony started with these problems after about 10 years of continuous use. Nothing could fix it. Paid for the Oppo BDP-103 and loving it. I might tinker with the Sony when I have some time, but wonder what's the point. The old players are available on ebay and craigslist for 10s of dollars.
Sadly my car SACD player MEX-DV2000 also stopped reading the SACD layer, and unfortunately I do not believe that there is a replacement.
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It was harsh alright, but I was also wrong - as I admitted in my next post: the explanation pointing to the method most used for classical music recordings was the one which made most sense.
Nevertheless, I also maintain that speakers setup (and the calibration done by Audyssey) is not at fault, as it remained the same in all situations (both with present and with weak/absent surround sound) comprising SACD or BD.
Setup options in the processor which may differ for different sources/formats? This, I have no idea, but I still doubt - as I said, I have at least two SACDs which sound perfect in m.ch, and source/format are the same as for the other SACDs which gave me the surround problem.
As about my expectations, they were based on the (proven wrong) assumption that all or most of classical music on SACD in m.ch should offer a decent amount of activity for the surround speakers.
Speaker positioning? Same idea - it remained the same for all types of sources. It's true though (as admitted in a previous post) that it's far from ideal. In addition to closeness to walls/corners and lack of stands (for the center and FR ones I've improvised something, but the FL one stands on same piece of furniture with the TV), the fronts have roughly the same distance between them as the surrounds. I know that the fronts should be closer to each other, then again, can't change them for now.
I just ordered this Respighi: Roman Trilogy - Neschling following a recommendation on the thread indicated by Iain and Lute. By the way, excellent thread indeed, and pertaining exactly to what I am interested to find in (classical) music on SACD.
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Post by truelies September 3, 2014 (37 of 40)
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Just found several of my Hybrid SACDs can play SACD layer on my SCD-C2000ES, but others only play CD layer with text. It seems the problem relates to different SACD.
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Post by Chesster July 13, 2015 (38 of 40)
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I have a tip that may help you. I have a Sony DVP-NS900V and found that some Hybrid SACDs would not play. I figured that the two layers were not correctly aligned so the SACD part could not be read. one particular disc was YES: Going for the One which only played the CD layer. I have remedied this by cutting a thin strip of sellotape and putting it through the middle of the CD and sticking it to the top and bottom surfaces.This seems to tilt the disc so as to make the SACD layer readable. I have found that this has worked 9/10 so may work for you.
Only use a small piece at first and only one at a time. It is not an exact science but if you stick with it(no pun intended)you'll get results.
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Post by sylvian July 13, 2015 (39 of 40)
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Instead of proposed tweaks, I would try to restore factory defaults. You should google it how to do it for your model and if it not works the last resort is to reset lens settings which is a bit difficult but works fine with ONKYO CS-5VL which has the same problem e.g. hybrids are recognized as RBCDs only.
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Post by Chesster October 14, 2015 (40 of 40)
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I was suggesting a remedy for playing SACD discs on a Sony DVP-NS900V, which resetting is of no use. The "fix" works for my player and may work for others if like me a reset is of no use.
No point in chucking out a player when there IS a chance of a "fix" surely better than broken stuff in the house!
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