Post by lennyw June 11, 2014 (21 of 34)
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rammiepie said:
Recorded to analogue on Studer A800 multitrack recorders. ORG was supplied analogue tapes from SONY and the SACD will be all analogue to the DSD stage.
I wondered why the LP sounded so much better than the CD...
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AmonRa said:
Why, it is from approximately 12 bit equal analog tapes with pitiful frequency response, not to mention peak compression etc etc.
http://www.endino.com/graphs/
AmonRa, in 1994 when Grace was recorded 24 bit digital recordings were in their infancy and the players and DACs at the time were not the equivalent of what's available today. There was a backlash on the merits of existing 16 bit DDD recordings by the audiophile press....and consumers, as well!
I have the original Columbia RBCD of Grace and it actually sounds quite good.
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Post by Lerxst June 11, 2014 (23 of 34)
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Shosty5 said:
Did you receive your disc from Elusive Disc, or another outlet?
I'm wondering if they are saying the entire first run is defective, or just certain discs.
The email I received was before they even shipped my disc, so obviously, it wasn't me who discovered a defect, as I haven't received it yet.
Unfortunately I found the defect when I played it in my Sony SACD player. Took it back over to the Oppo and sure enough.... It's in track 10 right about 3:30. It sounds like a couple of clicks that do fall right in line with the drums. Don't know enough about pressing processes, but this sounds almost like an editing issue to me. Contacted Elusive Disc and received the following:
Thank you for the order and email! We are aware of the problem and we have pulled our stock since learning about it. ORG is repressing this SACD. ETA is about 30 days. There is no need to return the defective disc as of now. However, please hang onto it just in case. When we receive the repress we will replace the disc at no charge. Sorry about the problem and thank you for letting us know!
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Post by bmoura June 12, 2014 (24 of 34)
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Lerxst said:
Unfortunately I found the defect when I played it in my Sony SACD player. Took it back over to the Oppo and sure enough.... It's in track 10 right about 3:30. It sounds like a couple of clicks that do fall right in line with the drums. Don't know enough about pressing processes, but this sounds almost like an editing issue to me. Contacted Elusive Disc and received the following:
Thank you for the order and email! We are aware of the problem and we have pulled our stock since learning about it. ORG is repressing this SACD. ETA is about 30 days. There is no need to return the defective disc as of now. However, please hang onto it just in case. When we receive the repress we will replace the disc at no charge. Sorry about the problem and thank you for letting us know!
It's a manufacturing problem. ORG is pulling the first run of the SACDs from the market and doing another pressing. The new SACD pressing should be out next month.
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Post by dobyblue June 12, 2014 (25 of 34)
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AmonRa said:
Why, it is from approximately 12 bit equal analog tapes with pitiful frequency response, not to mention peak compression etc etc.
http://www.endino.com/graphs/
According to the article you've linked Endino seems to speak highly of the late 70's Studer units which would include the A800, no?
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Post by AmonRa June 12, 2014 (26 of 34)
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dobyblue said:
According to the article you've linked Endino seems to speak highly of the late 70's Studer units which would include the A800, no?
In that article they have measured a few 800 series Studers, but no that exact model. Studers were certainly primus inter pares, but still compared to the ruler flat response of practically all ADCs, no contest...
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AmonRa said:
In that article they have measured a few 800 series Studers, but no that exact model. Studers were certainly primus inter pares, but still compared to the ruler flat response of practically all ADCs, no contest...
Is THIS your primary crusade in life, AmonRa: denigrating ALL recordings which were recorded analogue?
GRACE happens to be a wonderful sounding RBCD so I can only imagine how luxurious the ORG SACD will sound.
But under NO circumstances am I imploring you (AmonRa) to purchase it and clog up your precious ears with low fi garbage.
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Post by Lute June 12, 2014 (28 of 34)
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I have a question for AmonRa... not a personal attack. ;) I get the impression from your posts that you believe that there is no reason to release any pre-hirez 2-ch stereo recording on SACD, especially if the recording is already available on RBCD. Is this correct?
So, the only improvement or difference that can made by re-releasing these older recordings on SACD would be to try something like a Mch mix. Is this a fair assumption from your argument??
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Post by AmonRa June 12, 2014 (29 of 34)
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Real life analog tapes do not have any acoustic information which could not be perfectly copied to a CD, if we are talking about stereo. SACD hype aims to elevate the medium above the source; if the the source (tape) has severely limited frequency and dynamic range compared to the medium it is copied to, improving the said medium does not help one iota. Certainly an improved remix/mastering might sound better, but it would on CD also.
I famous M&M SACD versus CD test (where nobody could hear the difference) was heavily criticized for using mostly tape transfer disks in the test, as they are not good enough to reveal the difference. For some reason the same people here demand tapes on SACD as they sound so much better than CD. I find this illogical.
The analog recorder graphs are a good reminder of the real life limitations of tape, frequency response fluctuations also always mean phase fluctuations. Compared to tape digital is near perfect, even CD. There is some kind of romantic attachment to tape, huge Studer is more impressive than a $50 sound card, that is for sure, but check the graphs...
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Post by AmonRa June 12, 2014 (30 of 34)
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rammiepie said:
- primary crusade in life -
No, tape was the best method then, if we want to hear recordings from that era we listen to those. Many sound fine even by modern standards. Claiming that old tape is better than CD is BS.
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