Post by Chris May 30, 2014 (21 of 43)
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samayoeruorandajin said:
Absolutely no difference soundwise between DSD and 24/192 PCM in my opinion.
Never one to shy away from hot topics.
To make your claims a bit more credible maybe you could let us know on what system or systems you hear no difference between the two.
Checking you personal details I see no system whatsoever listed there!
What if your system is simply not resolving enough ie,not up to the job of hearing a difference between 24/192 and DSD?
I am not saying that such is the case and fact,I am merely asking you to let us know how you can state what you do with such certainty and authority?
Personally I can't always 100 % safely say that one is always better than the other,I have heard too many really good recordings made with both. But I do hear a difference between DSD and pcm via most hi res systems but not all.
But if the Schumann series has really been recorded in 24/192 I do indeed look forward to hearing that orchestra recorded in true hi res.
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Post by tommwi May 30, 2014 (22 of 43)
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Chris said:
... available via iTunes,which I suspect means compressed for the iPhone crowd.
Hopefully it won't be too long before they become available on their own.
All downloads from the new BPO label are supplied through iTunes.
The high res versions will be sold by iTunes from around the 1st of august.
I guess it will be 24/96. Source BPO.
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Chris said:
Never one to shy away from hot topics.
To make your claims a bit more credible maybe you could let us know on what system or systems you hear no difference between the two.
Checking you personal details I see no system whatsoever listed there!
What if your system is simply not resolving enough ie,not up to the job of hearing a difference between 24/192 and DSD?
I am not saying that such is the case and fact,I am merely asking you to let us know how you can state what you do with such certainty and authority?
Personally I can't always 100 % safely say that one is always better than the other,I have heard too many really good recordings made with both. But I do hear a difference between DSD and pcm via most hi res systems but not all.
But if the Schumann series has really been recorded in 24/192 I do indeed look forward to hearing that orchestra recorded in true hi res.
Says the man who listens only on headphones.
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Post by Chris May 30, 2014 (24 of 43)
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tommwi said:
All downloads from the new BPO label are supplied through iTunes.
The high res versions will be sold by iTunes from around the 1st of august.
I guess it will be 24/96. Source BPO.
Thanks for the information.
I too saw the link to iTunes on their homesite. But I am still a bit confused regarding the 24/192 files coupon packed with the rbcds the blu ray and all the rest in the lavish set advertised and discussed here?
Those who bought that and also downloaded what are allegedly the actual masterfiles from the code supplied,did you also get those via iTunes and mastered for iTunes?
If so it is worrying news for me at least.
I do not listen to my music via iTunes And I do not want my classical music compressed and mastered for iTunes at all!
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Post by Chris May 30, 2014 (25 of 43)
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samayoeruorandajin said:
Says the man who listens only on headphones.
Dear Tim,
unlike you who obviously listen via no system whatsoever according to the information you have provided?
FYI,I have just updated my details including my new amp and Chord Hugo DAC. And if you had bothered to check it out,my ML electrostatic speakers have been there around a year now.
Ok I have been away for about 6 months during the awful Swedish winter,
But it may surprise you that since two weeks,I listen via speakers for many hours every day,with great joy.
In fact I listen so much via speakers again that it intrudes seriously on all the boring accounting I should spend my time on.
I have to give you some credit though and admit,that now I have at least as good SQ via speakers as via headphones.
Before I have used my reference standard HD 800 headphones with my reference standard headphone amp DAC combo Benchmark DAC2.
Now I can connect the same reference preamp directly to my very powerful monoblocks and with the MLs get truly effortless very transparent highly resolved SQ.And now not only via headphones but also via speakers.
Or I can connect the little Hugo DXD and DSD 128 capable DAC/headphone amp to the power amps and be truly amazed at it's capabilities.
Either way I can also in most cases and via my own systems both via headphones and speakers,hear a difference between PCM and DSD.
Note the word difference,I did not ceremoniously state which is the better of the two.
Only that I mostly hear a difference beween the two.
The only thing I can ceremoniously state is that neither of the two is fully capable of capturing the sound of a symphony orchestra at full blast or pppp,completely realistically imo.
Not even via systems that cost upwards of 400000€. We are simply not there yet imo.
But finally after your nagging me,among other things,even my own home system is good enough to let me enjoy well recorded music via speakers more than ever before.
Whether via "good LPs"or SACDs,or pcm or DSD downloads there is a lot of really good music to enjoy and that is what matters most to me.
Ps I try to avoid sitting down on my headphones while listening via speakers though.
Cheers Chris
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I listen to music, not DSD or PCM. The people who have gotten into the resolution wars here are the ones who strain to listen to things that just aren't there. What numbers are enough for you? I don't get into the minuscule issues of the things you strain to listen to on you stax or from the limited number of times you actually are at home to listen to regular music.
My system? I have a new Denon 4520, and a Marantz multichannel SACD player, with B&W speakers. I don't listen on headphones because I don't want my ears to be damaged any more than they are. You now are going to blast my system because it doesn't match up the resolution of your "superior" system. Good on ya.
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Post by Chris May 30, 2014 (27 of 43)
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samayoeruorandajin said:
I listen to music, not DSD or PCM. The people who have gotten into the resolution wars here are the ones who strain to listen to things that just aren't there. What numbers are enough for you? I don't get into the minuscule issues of the things you strain to listen to on you stax or from the limited number of times you actually are at home to listen to regular music.
My system? I have a new Denon 4520, and a Marantz multichannel SACD player, with B&W speakers. I don't listen on headphones because I don't want my ears to be damaged any more than they are. You now are going to blast my system because it doesn't match up the resolution of your "superior" system. Good on ya.
Interesting response there Tim,
do you actually read what others write?
I thought I made it rather clear in my post,that I too listen to music not PCM or DSD.
And regarding "regular music"I suppose it doesn't count at all in your book that I have attended roughly 20 live symphonic and operatic and some chamber concerts and rehearsals this winter in KL and Singapore.
Your system versus mine?
I see no reason to "blast your system".
How could I do that without even having heard your system?
Besides you still don't mention which B&W speakers you have.There are imo speakers from that company that are best described as "midfi" and there several other speakers from B&W that are used in many recording studios.One of the best speakers systems I have ever heard was the 800D.
One last observation,maybe the hearing damage you mention above,which obviously keeps you from listening via headphones,could be a possible explanation why you don't hear any differences between 24/192 and DSD?
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Chris said:
Thanks for the information.
I too saw the link to iTunes on their homesite. But I am still a bit confused regarding the 24/192 files coupon packed with the rbcds the blu ray and all the rest in the lavish set advertised and discussed here?
Those who bought that and also downloaded what are allegedly the actual masterfiles from the code supplied,did you also get those via iTunes and mastered for iTunes?
If so it is worrying news for me at least.
I do not listen to my music via iTunes And I do not want my classical music compressed and mastered for iTunes at all!
If you have purchased the box set package the download is not via iTunes. There is a URL provided on the coupon in the package to a page on the Berliner Philharmoniker website, from which one uses the discount code on the coupon to "purchase" the downloads at zero price. More details are provided at the service page on the BPO recordings website.
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Post by Chris May 31, 2014 (29 of 43)
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Jon Benger said:
If you have purchased the box set package the download is not via iTunes. There is a URL provided on the coupon in the package to a page on the Berliner Philharmoniker website, from which one uses the discount code on the coupon to "purchase" the downloads at zero price. More details are provided at the service page on the BPO recordings website.
Thanks for your input Jon ,
unfortunately this is exactly the same information I too found on their site. Customers can ONLY access the native masterfiles if they also buy the rbcds!
There is at present no other way to get them.
All I can say to that is,good luck Simon and the BPO!
I have lived very happily without low res rbcds in my system since the introduction of SACD in the late 90s. And now in 2014 when basically everyone else is selling hi res downloads as THE format of the future the BPO are FORCING customers to buy low res rbcds,before they can get access to the native hi res download and true masterfiles.
Nothing wrong with blu ray as such,it is definitely clearly better than rbcd.But I doubt I will buy a blu ray player just to be able to play the blu ray discs,nor do I have any interest whatsoever in the rbcds.
For the time being I will stick to the SACDs of Schumann's symphonies I already have and get native hi res downloads of Schumann's symhonies from a label that is more future oriented and customer friendly,than the new label Berliner Philharmoniker.
And the only symphony I was really interested in hearing from this set was the 4th in is original version.
I have all four on SACD from Pentatone and Farao Classics,and especially the very well played and DSD recorded 1st in the spacious acoustic of the Rudolfinum in Prague is simply glorious imo.
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Chris said:
And now in 2014 when basically everyone else is selling hi res downloads as THE format of the future the BPO are FORCING customers to buy low res rbcds,before they can get access to the native hi res download and true masterfiles.
An alternative perspective would be to say that with every download you get the discs for free! Or the converse depending on your choice of audio poison. :)
I can see why they want people to own the physical product as they are trying to promote the orchestra's DCH, as well as providing notes etc. Forcing people to engage with the box/book is their attempt in this - time will tell how well it has worked out for them. The orchestra have gone to a lot of expense in this set (not least, it's a studio recording) & for the first release, I think it's understandable they want everyone to have as full an appreciation of what they've invested - in all ways - as possible.
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