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From robstl's review
"....the sound on Caetani's is close in but natural, with a reasonable amount of hall resonance in the surround speakers that I find involving without being distracting. It isn't quite as convincing as Kitajenko's sound."
I am have been kicking around the idea of buying the Kitajenko set and I wonder what exactly it is that makes Kitajenko's sound "more convincing". A good report here will probably take me to the "tipping point" !
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Post by robstl February 21, 2006 (2 of 25)
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Hi Windsurfer,
You're right, "more convincing" leaves a bit to be desired as a description, doesn't it! Sorry! When I listen to an orchestral or chamber music SA-CD in multichannel, I want to be convinced that I'm hearing musicians play music in a real space (hopefully one with good acoustics). The Kitajenko set does a remarkable job convincing me of that illusion. There are a few quirks (which I listed in my review of that set -- mainly over-centering of a few instruments), but nothing major, except the distortion I hear when the soprano sings in no. 14. I can close my eyes and imagine I'm hearing a top-flight orchestra in a warm-sounding but not overly-reverberant hall, a few rows back from the stage, when I listen to the Kitajenko discs (at least until the baby starts crying, the fridge ice maker kicks in, etc.!). It's even more impressive when I consider that some of the recordings in that set are concert recordings, some studio.
I'm sure it's the case that others (maybe you, too!) look for something different in their recordings, but that's what I meant by "more convincing", referring to the Kitajenko set. Yet I still very much enjoyed the sound on Caetani's disc, too; it is drier and more clinical, a little less sense of a real space, but with lots of impact. Especially those bells :-).
-Rob
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robstl said:
Hi Windsurfer,
You're right, "more convincing" leaves a bit to be desired as a description, doesn't it! Sorry! When I listen to an orchestral or chamber music SA-CD in multichannel, I want to be convinced that I'm hearing musicians play music in a real space (hopefully one with good acoustics). The Kitajenko set does a remarkable job convincing me of that illusion. There are a few quirks (which I listed in my review of that set -- mainly over-centering of a few instruments), but nothing major, except the distortion I hear when the soprano sings in no. 14. I can close my eyes and imagine I'm hearing a top-flight orchestra in a warm-sounding but not overly-reverberant hall, a few rows back from the stage, when I listen to the Kitajenko discs (at least until the baby starts crying, the fridge ice maker kicks in, etc.!). It's even more impressive when I consider that some of the recordings in that set are concert recordings, some studio.
I'm sure it's the case that others (maybe you, too!) look for something different in their recordings, but that's what I meant by "more convincing", referring to the Kitajenko set. Yet I still very much enjoyed the sound on Caetani's disc, too; it is drier and more clinical, a little less sense of a real space, but with lots of impact. Especially those bells :-).
-Rob
Thank you very much!
You've pretty much convinced me that I want to get the Kitajenko set!
Your description of what is convincing was pretty convincing!
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Post by Chris July 29, 2010 (4 of 25)
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Jonalogic in his review said:"OK, this one genuinely shocked me."
Me too,that is why I started a thread about both this and the other Schostakovich symphonies from ARTS under Caetani a couple of weeks ago.
In most respects stunning playing and recordings well worth exploring IMO.
ps Thanks for joining this site with your enjoyable reviews of interesting music.
Happy listening and keep them coming.
Chris
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Post by bissie July 29, 2010 (5 of 25)
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robstl said:
Hi Windsurfer,
I'm sure it's the case that others (maybe you, too!) look for something different in their recordings, but that's what I meant by "more convincing", referring to the Kitajenko set. Yet I still very much enjoyed the sound on Caetani's disc, too; it is drier and more clinical, a little less sense of a real space, but with lots of impact. Especially those bells :-).
-Rob
Did you listen to ours in Mch?
Robert
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Post by robstl July 29, 2010 (6 of 25)
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bissie said:
Did you listen to ours in Mch?
Robert
Oh, yes! I haven't posted a review because there are already two well-written reviews, and I haven't had the time to do the kind of dedicated, repeated listening I like to do before I post a review. I thought sound and performance were outstanding, as I did for the Wigglesworth Shostakovich #13, which is to my ears an audiophile demo disc if ever there was one. #11's 2nd movement massacre was terrific and terrifying, as it should be.
It is so impressive to me that BIS takes such a long view of its recording projects. This cycle has been more than a decade in the making, now, hasn't it?
Off topic: in addition to BIS Shostakovich 4 + 11, I'm listening my way through these recent BIS SA-CD purchases -- Brautigam Beethoven vol 8, Prokofiev Cti 2&3/Kempff, Bruckner 4/Vanskaa, Walton 1&2/Hughes. Keep them coming, Robert, I'll keep buying them!
-Rob
(PS I also really liked the Shostakovich/Schnittke trios recording. Perhaps Mr Kempff likes Shostakovich 24 Preludes and Fugues op 87, too? Hint, hint, for that on SA-CD... :-)
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Post by Arthur July 30, 2010 (7 of 25)
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Windsurfer said:
Thank you very much!
You've pretty much convinced me that I want to get the Kitajenko set!
Your description of what is convincing was pretty convincing!
Windsurfer:
As if you need further convincing, to me the Kitajenko reminds me of a PentaTone production: my first impression of most PentaTone discs has been, "wow, that's rather soft-focussed", and then the very naturalness of it starts to become apparent. Over and over I've seen you say how much you like some of these discs. I never really though of it before, but in reading this thread I got to thinking about my impression of Kiajenko, and it's exactly the same!
As for Caetani, this is the only disc in his series I've gotten, in large part because the performance was SO interesting I decided to pop for the whole box set; but I just haven't found it on sale when I've had funds. The sound is crisper and drier, but the performance! Wow!
A friend of mine used to comment on how there never seemed to be any great Italian orchestras, but great Italian soloists were a dime a dozen. I answered that that was probably because they didn't have the orchestral traditions of, say, Germany. But his theory was that there was something in Italian culture about "individualism" that encouraged quality playing, just not en masse. Well, the thing about Caetani that almost proves his point is the shear PERSONALITY of their playing! And yet, Caetani manages to always pull them together into a coherent whole. And then when I think about Russian orchestras, the thing I like about so many of them is that their playing too has great personality (the issues usually tend to be with ensemble and style). And that's when I realized that Caetani's group caught something essential in Shostakovich that is missing in most performances!
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Arthur said:
Windsurfer:
As if you need further convincing,
............
that Caetani's group caught something essential in Shostakovich that is missing in most performances!
I purchased the Kitajenko set some time ago from JPC when they had it on sale. I might now explore Caetani as well. I have some of PentaTone's unfinished set and some of those on BIS. But your statement above, well thats pretty convincing too!
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Post by Fugue January 8, 2011 (9 of 25)
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My copy arrived today--good lord! This is the most intense performance I have ever heard--Gergiev's new release pales in comparison. The sound is stunning in its impact. My only quibble is the bells in the finale: they are far too loud, and just what kind of bells are they? Gergiev's orchestral bells are barely audible, and Caetani's monstrosities dominate the sound--something in between might be better. Still, this is one devastatingly powerful performance.
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It might be that actual church bells are used - I remember Rostropovich conducting the EUYO at Proms to deafening effect with such bells...
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