|
|
|
Euell Neverno said:
For me vinyl was a pain in the neck and often sounded artificial because of the frequent tendency to over-equalize. I would agree that bad sound is not worthwhile, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with respect to the merits of RBCD, part of the early problems with which was engineering that was keyed to vinyl. I think a majority, even of those on this forum, would not agree with your contention that all RBCD's are unlistenable.
Hi
You misinterpret somewhat what I wrote. I didn't say all RBCDs were unlistenable. I made it clear, however, that they were 1) not as satisfactory a music playback medium as vinyl or SACD and 2) their limited transparency and resolution, together with a plethora of nonlinear and amusical distortions, perpetually got in the way of the music.
And, yes, getting the max out of vinyl was always a pain. That's a given. And that's one area where SACD clearly scores heavily.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by jazz1 June 22, 2013 (32 of 56)
|
|
Euell Neverno said:
This points up a difference in priorities. Some are more interested in the music and others in the electronics. Can music on a lowly RBCD sound pretty good? Sure can, which partially explains the lack of an overwhelming move to SACD. SACD CAN, of course, although not necessarily, sound better. A preference for poor or mediocre performances on SACD, when there are significantly superior performances on decent sounding RBCD's, makes little sense, except, of course, to those more interested in giving the electronics a workout. The old Telarc management fully understood this distinction.
For me great performances is essential, and then to top it all not all SACD's recording quality are great, I have many RBCD's that sounds better than lots of my SACD's.
And lets not talk about anything else than classical music.
If you are a modern jazz lover SACD is a non starter. My tastes are varied
I buy the music first, if the SACD is available this is the cherry on top.
My purchases seems to be 25% SACD's 75% RBCD's.
And sure SACD well done is superior to RBCD and will give extra pleasure but then you could say the same about a 200000$ system giving more pleasure than a 20000 $
system.
|
|
|
Post by hiredfox June 22, 2013 (33 of 56)
|
|
Jonalogic said:
...I just demand music playback that is good enough to disappear and let me hear the music.
In a nutshell.
Plenty of hypothesise around suggesting the less work one's brain does to make musical sense of sounds entering the ears the more relaxed one feels. Hence explaining perhaps the restlessness associated with RBCD with a seemingly constant need to change electronic bits and pieces to try to reduce the need for this human 'error correction'.
|
|
|
Post by hiredfox June 22, 2013 (34 of 56)
|
|
pgmdir said:
Thanks for the tip, it's ordered!
I hope you enjoy it as much as we. Look forward to your take on it. I've tried to be as objective as possible and filter out an obvious bias.
|
|
|
Post by Chris June 22, 2013 (35 of 56)
|
|
jazz1 said:
Unfortunately I love music too much to restrict myself to SACD's or Hi-Rez downloads, so much great music is just not available in these formats.
You remind me of a friends that just bought a big hidef television and that will only watch Bluray movies (never mind the content)
And btw the recording in question did not get many good reviews, mostly mediocres.???
So do I,and fyi most of my music is actually on LPs a format that is considered inferior to rbcd by many here.
Nevertheless, and in spite of such statements,many of my LPs give me much more musical enjoyment than any rbcd. But with modern digital recordings and repertoire not covered from the days of LP I prefer both the best performance and recordings as SACDs or hi rez DLs.
Only rarely do I listen to music on rbcd.
RBCD can be ok on lightly scored music, yes,but most of the time it is imo such a killjoy, that I avoid it.
I have not bought one for more than ten years and although my local library has hundreds of rbcds of works I like and artists I admire,I rarely use the facility.
I made an exception with Pappano's Tristan and was as almost always,so disappointed that I haven't even listened to the whole Opera that way,but many many times on LP.
I am fully aware that the days of screechy harsh rbcd sound are mostly over,but what robs me of my normally high dopamine rush and frequent EARGASMS when listening to music on LP SACD and hi rez DL is how comparably dull and lifeless rbcds still sound.
It may be different if one listens to electronically amplified instruments synth music and such . But with large scale classical and other acoustical instrument genres too, rbcd sounds too low res to me, and therefore I avoid it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris June 22, 2013 (36 of 56)
|
|
Jonalogic said:
Chris Hi
Thanks for this. Yep, I will certainly try out some hires downloads when my balanced HD800 and driver get into stock and I take delivery. Then I can connect to my Oppo and let rip.
Out of interest, do you play direct from a memory stick or burn onto DVD? And I wonder if they sound different...
Cheers
Jon
Jon hello,
I play masterfiles both pcm and dff DSD ones from 8 gigabyte ram on my Macbook Pros via my DAC 2,either via headphones or using the DAC2 as pre amp connected to my power amp and speakers.
Why burn on DVD?
I used to do so,as a backup for my camera raw files before,but haven't done so for the past 5-6 years.
Multiple backup drives are both a faster and better way imo.
On one of my Lacie rugged 1 Tb portable harddrives I have over 400 Gb of hi res music always accessible with a mere click.
But with your OPPO I think you will have to put your files on a usb stick.
best Chris
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris said:
Jon hello,
I play masterfiles both pcm and dff DSD ones from 8 gigabyte ram on my Macbook Pros via my DAC 2,either via headphones or using the DAC2 as pre amp connected to my power amp and speakers.
Why burn on DVD? ...
But with your OPPO I think you will have to put your files on a usb stick.
best Chris
Chris Hi
Thanks for this.
DVD...? Only because, as mentioned, I'm a neo-luddite and have a seditious and wholly irrational attachment to round bits of plastic.
Sad, I know.
Cheers
Jon
|
|
|
Post by Chris June 22, 2013 (38 of 56)
|
|
Jonalogic said:
Chris Hi
Thanks for this.
DVD...? Only because, as mentioned, I'm a neo-luddite and have a seditious and wholly irrational attachment to round bits of plastic.
Sad, I know.
Cheers
Jon
Hello Jon,
Not to worry,you are not alone,we all have our little attachments and addictions.I am also still suffering a bit from a similar attachment, But instead of plastic mine is to round pieces of black vinyl.I never really fancied the pink or yellow or transparent pop versions.
And I love fondling those wonderful large pieces of cardboard they live in.
I even display some on my bookshelves as a sort of in House Art Exhibition.
On display this week is the LP Boxed set Richard Strauss' Werke für Orchester Folge 1,which once again,via my revelatory DAC2 preamp,turned out to be much better than I remembered.
Glorious music very well performed by one of the World's greatest orchestras conducted by Rudolf Kempe and recorded in wonderfully warm and very clear and very resolved analogue sound.
To be re-released on SACD if my memory serves me right.
I paid about ten quid at a local thrift shop for the whole box containing 4 LPs in pristine condition and a very interesting large booklet full of photos and facts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris said:
Hello Jon,
Not to worry,you are not alone,we all have our little attachments and addictions.I am also still suffering a bit from a similar attachment, But instead of plastic mine is to round pieces of black vinyl.I never really fancied the pink or yellow or transparent pop versions.
And I love fondling those wonderful large pieces of cardboard they live in.
I even display some on my bookshelves as a sort of in House Art Exhibition.
On display this week is the LP Boxed set Richard Strauss' Werke für Orchester Folge 1,which once again,via my revelatory DAC2 preamp,turned out to be much better than I remembered.
Glorious music very well performed by one of the World's greatest orchestras conducted by Rudolf Kempe and recorded in wonderfully warm and very clear and very resolved analogue sound.
To be re-released on SACD if my memory serves me right.
I paid about ten quid at a local thrift shop for the whole box containing 4 LPs in pristine condition and a very interesting large booklet full of photos and facts.
Chris Hi
My round lumps of plastic comment definitely included those of the larger and black vinyl variety!
As we know, the new black is always black.
And size, also, definitely matters - especially when trying read the notes; no problems with analogy stuff, but one sometimes needs a scanning electron microscope to peruse SACD notes.
Needless to say, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with advancing age. Perish the thought.
Jon
|
|
|
|
|
|
hiredfox said:
In a nutshell.
Plenty of hypothesise around suggesting the less work one's brain does to make musical sense of sounds entering the ears the more relaxed one feels. Hence explaining perhaps the restlessness associated with RBCD with a seemingly constant need to change electronic bits and pieces to try to reduce the need for this human 'error correction'.
Not sure about the human error correction theory. My theory is that most of the work is done in the recording process and that the limitations of the playback medium and equipment are secondary. With RBCD's the greater the complexity of the signal, as with orchestral music, the more obvious are the limitations of the RBCD medium, particularly when played at concert volume. Such limitations obscure, to a certain extent, the beauty of the instruments and/or voice. Nonetheless, as we know, there is a much greater variety of compositions and performances on RBCD and simply ruling out RBCD's for one's listening pleasure is, well, silly, in my opinion.
|
|
