add to wish list | library


27 of 38 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

Support this site by purchasing from these vendors using the paid links below. As an Amazon Associate SA-CD.net earns from qualifying purchases.
 
amazon.ca
 
amazon.com
amazon.de
 
 
 
 
jpc

Discussion: Yes: Close to the Edge

Posts: 205
Page: prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 21 next

Post by sylvian March 23, 2013 (41 of 205)
windhoek said:

My copy is on its way from the US (to UK) and so should arrive in a couple of weeks or so and because it cost less than £15, shouldn't raise eyebrows at HMRC ;)

I have had ordered mine from JPC and they notified me just yesterday that my item is on its way to me. My order with amazon.uk IS STILL PENDING AND I DO NOT BELIEVE they will ever intend to make it real. This is the end of my patience. |I will never order anything form AMAZON ever.

Post by windhoek March 24, 2013 (42 of 205)
sylvian said:

I have had ordered mine from JPC and they notified me just yesterday that my item is on its way to me. My order with amazon.uk IS STILL PENDING AND I DO NOT BELIEVE they will ever intend to make it real. This is the end of my patience. |I will never order anything form AMAZON ever.

I think there's a few of us who've given up on Amazon UK delivering this item; that's probably why we've been ordering from Amazon US or in your case, JPC.

Post by hiredfox March 25, 2013 (43 of 205)
I didn't quite follow this part of the thread as there are plenty of re-sellers on the amazon.co.uk site that claim to have this disc in stock, all US based.

Post by rammiepie March 25, 2013 (44 of 205)
hiredfox said:

I didn't quite follow this part of the thread as there are plenty of re-sellers on the amazon.co.uk site that claim to have this disc in stock, all US based.

The same delays have accompanied the releases of Nat King Coles Welcome To The Club and Harry Belafonte's Calypso on Audio Fidelity SACD............

Growing pains for the newly reinvigorated AF SACD releases.......pressed in Austria.

Amazon US still has the best price on Close To The Edge and currently shows it as In Stock.

Post by sylvian March 25, 2013 (45 of 205)
Mine copy have just arrived today. So either AMAZON.CO.UK lies or maybe tries to force its custommers to close their orders placed last year due to low initial pricing, IMHO.

Post by Chartreux March 27, 2013 (46 of 205)
I love music, especially Yes music, so I apologise for the lengthy review. It's actually less of a review of this release, which is horrendous, and more about my experience with all the digital versions of this album.


It's always been my belief that every single digital version of this album is nothing like the complete and final work that Yes actually recorded. I mean this album has never sounded good on any CD. I know from some sections of later Yes (Awaken for example) and Steve Howe's solo albums (Turbulence comes to mind as well as the Grand Scheme of Things) how incredible and complex their arrangements could be. But I'm talking about very brief instances where you really have to bust your eardrums and play with the balance in the speakers/headphones to have any chance of hearing these intricate details (Even for the newer releases like howe's solo albums, oddly enough). But in places it is definitely there.

Also Eddie Offord, the producer has stated in a NFTE interview that when the overdubs went on to these songs it would sound like a symphony/wall of music. Steve Howe has also said that the overdubbing on Tales From Topographic Oceans was enormous - you certainly can't hear it. I think what we hear on all the digital releases of this album (as well as other yes and possibly other prog albums) so far is essentially the backing tracks to what was probably one of the greatest achievements in 20th century music. Seriously. Consider this comment from Patrik Moraz the keyboardist for Yes during the Relayer period :

"Jon actually led me through the compositions and through the core of the arrangement and the construction of most of the themes of 'The Gates of Delirium,' which were composed by the time I came in. Not all of it was complete, but everything was in his head. I think he had the plan for the whole symphony. It was like a symphony. In the world of rock 'n' roll, although very influenced by The Beatles and the English music scene at the time, I always acquaint Yes with what Stravinsky would have done as a rock musician. Yes music has that kind of symphonic approach and arrangement. The sophistication of the orchestration is absolutely staggering. "


Consider especially the last sentence. He is talking about yes arrangements in general, and this is a guy who knows what he's talking about when it comes to music. He studied with Nadia Boulanger in Paris for God's sake.


Over the last couple of decades there have been countless reviews of this album describing it as incredibly complex, featuring arrangements that popular music had never seen before and would likely never see again. And you know what, that's probably correct. But how on earth would anybody know listening to any digital version of this album (Including this one)? I have every single digital version of this album ever released and there is no musically significant difference between them at all. The the majority of the title track (with the exception of the introduction which I think is also incredibly incomplete) is basically a some fills on guitar, a few block organ chords and ONE NOTE that is repeated in the pre-chorus section by Rick Wakeman. I mean really, can you believe that 5 of the greatest musicians in popular music at the time would consider this album as we hear it one of their greatest achievements? All the evidence suggests otherwise.


What's incredible to me is just about everybody who reviews this album classifies it as complex and well arranged, based obviously on its reputation and not what they are hearing. The level of self-deception of people on the Steve Hoffman forums (for example) is just mind-boggling. There is no difference between the actual musical content on this remaster as any of the others AT ALL. People are raving about the detail captured from the master tape and all that garbage, believe me, it simply is not there. I mean I've spent hundreds of hours listening to this music, and I can guarantee it is for all intents and purposes identical to prior releases. I challenge anyone to point out any musical details present here that are absent in other versions. I simply cannot believe that the master tape was used in this mastering, either that or Hoffman really did a horrendous job.



The particularly bothersome thing about this release is that I, like many others out there was expecting a fresh perspective on this album, after all, it is an audiophile release. Steve Hoffman and Audio Fidelity should be absolutely ashamed for releasing this, but in a way how can you blame them, there are hundreds of audiofools out there who clearly have to convince themselves that there is anything worthwhile about this remaster. One very telling remark by one someone on the thread discussing this album on the Hoffman site said something like (I'm paraphrasing) "now I can hear things I couldn't hear before..like Chris Squire's mandolin like tremolo (really quite redundant to calll it mandolin tremolo) in the intro." Seriously.... What's particularly funny about this is that it is one of the few things that's actually happening in the track at this point, and naturally, it's as clear as day on any of the other CDs.


So after all that negativity, here's some good news. I do believe we have a chance to hear this music true to what was on the master tape, and that is on vinyl. However, there is one catch, you have to find the right pressing. I own about 10 vinyl pressings of CTTE (all 1972 originals) and they all sound different. Truth be told many of them don't sound THAT different to any of the digital releases, however on one of them I notice a couple of things.

First in the title track during the "down at the edge, round by the corner" sectioned I was stunned to hear a harmony part that was completely absent on any other version I had heard before, I just jumped out at me. Another amazing moment was during the intro to And You And I, just before the lyrics begin; when Steve Howe starts strumming that chord sequence, but for a brief moment the soundstage doubled in size and there was what seemed to be a beautifully complex orchestration of acoustic guitars (and probably other stringed instruments and maybe keyboards too), then dissapointingly, just as soon as the soundstage opened up it closed again. So at this stage I had still not found the right pressing, though I began to realise (with great happiness) that my initial suspicions about this album were correct.


I recently came across a website called Better Records, founded by a guy called Tom Port, who sells premium pressings he calls hot stamper records (records that for one reason or another are significantly better than regular pressings). As Tom explains on his site, the pressing of vinyl is process that involves many processes and for a record to sound good many things have had to have gone right. He happened to have a close to the edge hot stamper for sale and I bought it (he has a money back guarantee that if it doesn't sound amazing you can send back the LP for a full refund)


My turntable setup is incredibly modest and he has a disclaimer stating that you need the correct set up in order to hear this album sound amazing. When I played the hot stamper on my system it lacked those wow moments that the other, noisier, inferior pressings had, but I think this was simply to do with my set up.

Once I upgrade my system, Close to The Edge will finally reveal itself in all its magnificence. There is another copy for sale on the site at the moment, BTW, if anyone is interested.



Sorry for this horrendously long rant but this album and yes music in general is something I feel strongly about and I feel we have been deprived of something very special for a very long time.

Post by Kveld-Úlfr March 27, 2013 (47 of 205)
Chartreux said:
Hi Chartreux,

You expressed your point of view and I, for one, respect it as much as I enjoyed it.

You should have entered this review directly in the title page, though :-)

I must reply to your accusation stating that "audiofools" erroneously believe they hear things in this SACD they never heard on other pressings : in fact, I believe Steve Hoffman used the master tapes indeed, but did not use the magic of previously unused material from these tapes. The trick is this SACD clearly has much EQ (very strong high-medium and high frequency content) and though it does not sound totally bad, you can hear that important elements such as drums were sacrificed to bring some details to the front thanks to this biased EQ-ing. This is a typical Steve Hoffman method to dig out sounds from existing musical information. Not everyone likes it.

IMO this SACD lacks the power and the impact of the 1994 Atlantic CD release, for instance. Drums are beautiful, natural sounding and nicely present on the latter. This doesn't prevent me from liking the SACD. However, I do not have all the knowledge regarding this album's different versions as I'm 28 years old and listened only once or twice to my father's LP (which horribly pops due to thousands of playings). So, not having your experience with this musical piece, I'm not the one who will tell you whether you're right or wrong, and in fact, when it comes to something as personnal as music, I believe neither right or wrong exist. This SACD has pros and cons, maybe not in equal share, but I simply want to point out that your long time love for that album surely made you adamant for something that simply is a new approach. Maybe it should be treated as such ?

Post by sylvian March 27, 2013 (48 of 205)
Kveld-Úlfr said:

Hi Chartreux,

You expressed your point of view and I, for one, respect it as much as I enjoyed it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO this SACD lacks the power and the impact of the 1994 Atlantic CD release, for instance. Drums are beautiful, natural sounding and nicely present on the latter. This doesn't prevent me from liking the SACD. However, I do not have all the knowledge regarding this album's different versions as I'm 28 years old and listened only once or twice to my father's LP (which horribly pops due to thousands of playings). So, not having your experience with this musical piece, I'm not the one who will tell you whether you're right or wrong, and in fact, when it comes to something as personnal as music, I believe neither right or wrong exist. This SACD has pros and cons, maybe not in equal share, but I simply want to point out that your long time love for that album surely made you adamant for something that simply is a new approach. Maybe it should be treated as such ?

Thanks for your view, Kveld. I have just listened to both Sa-cd releases by YES to date in one go and must admit, that THIS Album needs a complete new remix Steve Wilson is capable of and rather multichannel (if possible). While Fragile shines thrugh every moment, this one sits firmly on the earth but on the other hand we would expect more ethereal approach: something the inner gatefold graphic by Roger Dean offers for the eye. I am not disappointed by Steve Hoffmans work but not very surprised, too: Hoffmann had been probably presented not by the master tape but only master copy of the version used for vinyl pressings (or 3rd rate copy).

If you put an ear to the tracks by King Ceimson or ELP Steve Wilson have already done they all are sounding very fresh and very exciting. The other thing is what gear are you using to play those back, since they are "only" LPCM which is real different cup of tea than DSD and I swear that this time I had used full DSD setup to play Fragile & CTTE back. CTTE simply cannot contest with the other DSD mastered discs like GENESIS SA-CDs or PINK FLOYD SA-CDs.

Nevertheless CTTE in this SA-cd release sound like 70s albums usually sounded (with more bass probably) so it is fair for me to listen to it repeatedly. I would not recommend that to my best friend of course, due to its price which is unfair to us, audiophiles.

Conclusion: we are only half way through to final version to CTTE.

Post by sylvian March 27, 2013 (49 of 205)
Concerning other possible Yes future releases I remeber someone stated, that "Majority of master tapes are lost or damaged to that extent, that (Except for Fragile) would be almost impossible to achieve staisfying results". This is probavly the reason, why they have never been released in a form that Fragile deserved.

Bill Inglot (Rhino master egineer of the Expanded Yes editions) would have shed a light on this, cause he also could not cope with the tape hiss as well as Joe Gastwirt cannot when they remasterd CTTE.

Post by rammiepie March 27, 2013 (50 of 205)
Even if Steve Wilson were to tackle the YES catalogue......he works exclusively in the DVD~A/V and Blu~ray formats. AFAIK, he has never embraced SACD.

But he would be the go to man for YES.........ESPECIALLY in 5.1.

So, please Steve........say YES!

BTW, Steve Wilson's 5.1 DVD~A remaster (and other configurations) of Hawkwind's 1975 classic Warrior On The Edge Of Time will be released on May 25th (and true MLP 96/24 5.1 & Stereo)!

And Steve is also working on the XTC catalogue in 5.1, as well.

Busy Beaver, that Stevie Wilson.

Page: prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 21 next

Closed