Post by zeus October 27, 2005 (11 of 27)
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Jonty said:
Harmonia Mundi double catalogue so you may not be getting the SACD.
The SA-CD isn't yet listed on CD Universe. If it was, it would be linked to the title here.
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Post by Beagle October 27, 2005 (12 of 27)
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Jonty said:
looking at the CD Universe site suggests you have ordered the CD not the SACD.
Duh! Thanks gang. The two Mendelssohns are SACD; I am a victim of my own wishful thinking on the Razzies. I shouldn't order discs late at night after a long day at work. To paraphrase Oscar, 'Work is the curse of the audiophilic man'.
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Post by Beagle December 1, 2005 (13 of 27)
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Hi Nick,
RE REVIEWS
We agree completely on the Middle Quartets, aka "the first Real Beethoven". Hence my reluctance to drive a wooden stake through this much-awaited recording. The only competition would be the bag of mixed-vegetables in the Prazakova box-set.
We disagree only on the sound, and I am truly surprised to find that dimension controversial. Musicality, interpretation and other such matters are obviously subject to subjectivity, but the sonics here would seem to be the sort of thing measurable with an oscilloscope. Lacking such benchmark equipment, I have resorted to the hedged subjectivity of myself plus my wife (with no prompting from me). When thus compared to any of my other 86 SACDs, this one is remarkably low-profile. That's a disc-vs-disc comparison, regardless of this sound-system vs that sound-system.
But thanks for disagreeing: the Tokyos gotta eat, too.
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Post by nickc December 1, 2005 (14 of 27)
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Beagle said:
Hi Nick,
RE REVIEWS
We agree completely on the Middle Quartets, aka "the first Real Beethoven". Hence my reluctance to drive a wooden stake through this much-awaited recording. The only competition would be the bag of mixed-vegetables in the Prazakova box-set.
We disagree only on the sound, and I am truly surprised to find that dimension controversial. Musicality, interpretation and other such matters are obviously subject to subjectivity, but the sonics here would seem to be the sort of thing measurable with an oscilloscope. Lacking such benchmark equipment, I have resorted to the hedged subjectivity of myself plus my wife (with no prompting from me). When thus compared to any of my other 86 SACDs, this one is remarkably low-profile. That's a disc-vs-disc comparison, regardless of this sound-system vs that sound-system.
But thanks for disagreeing: the Tokyos gotta eat, too.
Hi Beagle
Voltaire would be proud of us! As you can see from my system it is fairly low-end :(, but I also find it strange that we disagree on the sound to such an extent.
It is not reference quality (like say the Channel Classics Beethoven cello sonatas - I highly recommend that) - if anything I would have thought some might have thought it was a bit too in your face and sligtly "hot". Also the 1st. violin sort of came out between the left and centre speakers while the cello was anchored solely in my left, but this is only a minor impression of mine.
In the end I hope others buy and post reviews!
Cheers
Nick
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Post by Beagle December 4, 2005 (15 of 27)
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nickc said:
Hi Beagle
Voltaire would be proud of us...
It is not reference quality like the Channel Classics Beethoven cello sonatas...
Nick,
Which Voltaire? "Écrase les bâtards..."?
Yes, I know which Voltaire you mean: "blah blah defend with my life your right to disagree". It has occurred to me that we should agree to disagree more, in order to raise the profile (and thus sales, and thus supply) of chamber music, on the premise that 'Anything worth fighting over, is worth investigating further" and 'ANY publicity is GOOD publicity'.
I have, and very much enjoy, the Wispelwey/Lazic discs, but in the cause of profile-raising, I will raise one quibble:
I recall that Wispelwey underlines the fact that he is recording this set of sonatas on a PERIOD 'cello (having done it previously on a less than hoary instrument). Since the issue of period instruments entered my consciousness in the early '70s, I've become a keen fan of "authentic" -- even buying Paniagua's Fandango disc, recorded on "period synthesisers".
Here's my quibble: Lazic's piano doesn't appear all periodish. Yes, he keeps the beast on a leash, but why a beast? I would have wept for joy if the keyboard part had been added with a Beetovenesque forte-piano. Many would differ, but they are the same crowd who would prefer a 2006 Kawasaki motorcycle to a 1952 Velocette.
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Post by nickc December 4, 2005 (16 of 27)
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Beagle said:
Nick,
Which Voltaire? "Écrase les bâtards..."?
Yes, I know which Voltaire you mean: "blah blah defend with my life your right to disagree". It has occurred to me that we should agree to disagree more, in order to raise the profile (and thus sales, and thus supply) of chamber music, on the premise that 'Anything worth fighting over, is worth investigating further" and 'ANY publicity is GOOD publicity'.
I have, and very much enjoy, the Wispelwey/Lazic discs, but in the cause of profile-raising, I will raise one quibble:
I recall that Wispelwey underlines the fact that he is recording this set of sonatas on a PERIOD 'cello (having done it previously on a less than hoary instrument). Since the issue of period instruments entered my consciousness in the early '70s, I've become a keen fan of "authentic" -- even buying Paniagua's Fandango disc, recorded on "period synthesisers".
Here's my quibble: Lazic's piano doesn't appear all periodish. Yes, he keeps the beast on a leash, but why a beast? I would have wept for joy if the keyboard part had been added with a Beetovenesque forte-piano. Many would differ, but they are the same crowd who would prefer a 2006 Kawasaki motorcycle to a 1952 Velocette.
Hi Beagle
I love a bit of controversy - that's why I'm still waiting with bated breath for Raffell's World War 3 inducing review of the Telarc Higdon disc...as Dave would say LOL
Re the Beethoven I never really liked the fortepiano (even being a pianist!), but the opening movement of KV378 on the first Channel Classics Mozart Violin Sonatas disc really opened my ears! Unfortunately I still find the violin tone on that disc a bit harsh and grating - strangely when Podger uses exactly the same 1739 Pesarius (if my memory is correct) on her Vivaldi La Stravaganza disc and that is as smooth as chocolate!
Anyway good listening
Nick
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Post by nickc December 4, 2005 (17 of 27)
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nickc said:
Hi Beagle
Voltaire would be proud of us! As you can see from my system it is fairly low-end :(, but I also find it strange that we disagree on the sound to such an extent.
It is not reference quality (like say the Channel Classics Beethoven cello sonatas - I highly recommend that) - if anything I would have thought some might have thought it was a bit too in your face and sligtly "hot". Also the 1st. violin sort of came out between the left and centre speakers while the cello was anchored solely in my left, but this is only a minor impression of mine.
In the end I hope others buy and post reviews!
Cheers
Nick
Sorry I mean of course the cello was anchored in my right not left hand speaker!
Cheers
Nick
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Post by Beagle December 5, 2005 (18 of 27)
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nickc said:
I'm still waiting with bated breath for Raffell's World War 3 inducing review of the Telarc Higdon disc
... I still find the violin tone on that disc a bit harsh and grating - strangely when Podger uses exactly the same 1739 Pesarius (if my memory is correct) on her Vivaldi La Stravaganza disc and that is as smooth as chocolate!
HIGDON
Thanks for the warning; I think I'll sit this one out.
PODGER
The Stravaganza is winging its way to me, as I type. Mmm, chocolate!
--And speaking of HARSHNESS, that quality seems to pop up unpredictably in discs and auditors' ears. I just put the Prazak/Beethoven Op. 18 on again, to hear if it still grates like it did on first hearing.... Hmm, I think one of us is mellowing (it or me?); it is no longer painful to my ears -- but my beau ideale of SACD/Chamber Music remains the Kocian/Haydn Op. 74.
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Post by Kremach November 5, 2006 (19 of 27)
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Hope that a discussion on this SA-CD is not too late, and apologise for bringing it up until now.
I bought this disc when it first released. My impression at that time was that whilst both the sound and the ambience of the playing were very well captured, somehow the image of the players was not at all clear - I couldn't tell where each player was siting. It sounded like as if they were sitting in a circle. I put the disc aside for some months, during which I changed my system from tube to solid state. Yet, when I listened to it again today, the image remained the same. Just wondered for those who have listened to this disc, do you hear the same as well? Thank you.
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Post by Beagle November 5, 2006 (20 of 27)
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Kremach said:
Just wondered for those who have listened to this disc, do you hear the same as well?
Like you, I haven't listened to this disc for months -- so I put it on the Shanling (via digital not tube output).
The music is, of course, Great. The music-making is as sedated as I remembered it. The sound is rich and warm ("too reverberant" to some listeners) -- but the 'sound-stage' is blurred by that richness and warmth, with the cello echoing out of the left speaker as much as it is playing out of the right. It's not a 'bad' recording, just not a 'good' recording.
Nick, if he is listening, has my blessing to disagree with all the above. What time is it in Melbourne?
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