Post by Dinko August 2, 2003 (1 of 22)
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I'll say this much: I'm excited to see what RCA can do with 5.1 on SACD.
BMG's German website says it's coming out on the 18th of August.
http://www.bmgclassics.de/classics/productdetails.do?Bestell_Nr=82876543322&CatList=true
(QUOTE FROM BMG WEBSITE:)
The Ninth is without doubt the most exciting addition to Nikolaus Harnoncourt’s Bruckner discography. In the present recording with the Wiener Philharmoniker (made during a concert in which the conductor spoke extensively about the work), Harnoncourt offers not only the three movements the composer completed, but also the fragments which would have made up the finale. Harnoncourt’s intentions here are not just pedagogic, but an attempt as it were to bring the listener into closer communion with the maxim of a composer of immense stature for whom "nothing exists that does not exist". Harnoncourt lends this, the very last music Bruckner was to write - but for a few extra weeks the composer would have finished the score - an unfathomable and revolutionary spirit that would previously have been unimaginable. The quality of this recording lies not in the coherent and ‘classical’ contiguity of a Bruckner exegete, but in the fractured, ruptured atmosphere of confrontation: Bruckner in the apparel of an anti-romantic figure, as a visionary, and a hoary modernist who in his times had hastened away and with whom it was impossible to keep pace.
The live recording of the three complete movements is released as a SACD in 5.1 surround sound.
Nikolaus Harnoncourt
Wie ein Stein vom Mond - Gespr (Deutsche Version)
01 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Warum hat man eigentlich 100 J 11:12
02 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 1-278 09:14
03 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Gegen Ende eine extreme Disson 02:21
04 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Nach dem Ende der Durchführung 00:51
05 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 279-342 02:25
06 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Quasi ein Schreckbild des Tode 01:52
07 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 343-478 04:45
08 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Danach fehlen 16 Takte; dazu i 01:48
09 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 479-510. L 01:34
Nikolaus Harnoncourt Like A Stone From The Moon - A (English Version) 10 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Why did we think for over hund 10:51
11 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 1-278 09:14
12 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Extreme dissonances in the tru 02:24
13 Nikolaus Harnoncourt At the end of the developmnet 00:40
14 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 279-342 02:25
15 Nikolaus Harnoncourt A sudden vision of death 01:46
16 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 343-478 04:45
17 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Then there are sixteen bars mi 01:39
18 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 479-510. Ga 01:36
Nikolaus Harnoncourt Symphony No. 9 in D minor, WAB
01 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Feierlich; misterioso 24:17
02 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Scherzo. Bewegt; lebhaft - Tri 10:39
03 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Adagio. Langsam; feierlich 23:54
(endQUOTE)
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Dinko said:
I'll say this much: I'm excited to see what RCA can do with 5.1 on SACD.
BMG's German website says it's coming out on the 18th of August.
http://www.bmgclassics.de/classics/productdetails.do?Bestell_Nr=82876543322&CatList=true
(QUOTE FROM BMG WEBSITE:)
The Ninth is without doubt the most exciting addition to Nikolaus Harnoncourt’s Bruckner discography. In the present recording with the Wiener Philharmoniker (made during a concert in which the conductor spoke extensively about the work), Harnoncourt offers not only the three movements the composer completed, but also the fragments which would have made up the finale. Harnoncourt’s intentions here are not just pedagogic, but an attempt as it were to bring the listener into closer communion with the maxim of a composer of immense stature for whom "nothing exists that does not exist". Harnoncourt lends this, the very last music Bruckner was to write - but for a few extra weeks the composer would have finished the score - an unfathomable and revolutionary spirit that would previously have been unimaginable. The quality of this recording lies not in the coherent and ‘classical’ contiguity of a Bruckner exegete, but in the fractured, ruptured atmosphere of confrontation: Bruckner in the apparel of an anti-romantic figure, as a visionary, and a hoary modernist who in his times had hastened away and with whom it was impossible to keep pace.
The live recording of the three complete movements is released as a SACD in 5.1 surround sound.
Nikolaus Harnoncourt
Wie ein Stein vom Mond - Gespr (Deutsche Version)
01 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Warum hat man eigentlich 100 J 11:12
02 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 1-278 09:14
03 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Gegen Ende eine extreme Disson 02:21
04 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Nach dem Ende der Durchführung 00:51
05 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 279-342 02:25
06 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Quasi ein Schreckbild des Tode 01:52
07 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 343-478 04:45
08 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Danach fehlen 16 Takte; dazu i 01:48
09 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Dokumentation, Takt 479-510. L 01:34
Nikolaus Harnoncourt Like A Stone From The Moon - A (English Version) 10 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Why did we think for over hund 10:51
11 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 1-278 09:14
12 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Extreme dissonances in the tru 02:24
13 Nikolaus Harnoncourt At the end of the developmnet 00:40
14 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 279-342 02:25
15 Nikolaus Harnoncourt A sudden vision of death 01:46
16 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 343-478 04:45
17 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Then there are sixteen bars mi 01:39
18 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Documentation, mm. 479-510. Ga 01:36
Nikolaus Harnoncourt Symphony No. 9 in D minor, WAB
01 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Feierlich; misterioso 24:17
02 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Scherzo. Bewegt; lebhaft - Tri 10:39
03 Nikolaus Harnoncourt Adagio. Langsam; feierlich 23:54
(endQUOTE)
I'm also intrigued by what Harnoncourt does to Bruckner. I was unable to stand his late-80's early 90's Mozart recordings, - they made me almost physically ill, I hated his Haydn and I didn't much care for his Beethoven set, but I have to admit that his Schumann (Genoveva as well as the symphonies) is splendid. The Bruckner 9 is a favourite of mine, so I'll at least try and listen to this.
By the way, typical of German music commentary, don't you love BMG's hype for the disc:"The quality of this recording lies not in the coherent and ‘classical’ contiguity of a Bruckner exegete, but.....". You couldn't invent prose so ponderous and pseudo academic. Let's hope the performance and recording are better than the prose that accompanies them.
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Post by zeus August 21, 2003 (3 of 22)
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Post by Dinko August 21, 2003 (4 of 22)
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Not only is it available, I've had it on pre-order since you posted it on this site a couple of weeks back. I got a shipment confirmation email from Amazon.de last Saturday. Hopefully, it shouldn't be too long now.
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Post by Dinko August 22, 2003 (5 of 22)
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In fact, it wasn't long at all.
Now if this is the type of SACD we can expect from BMG Classics, then we can only wish they make more of them.
The first CD, featuring the fragments from the ninth symphony sounds very good. But the second disc (which is the hybrid SACD) featuring the three finished movements sounds stunning, the multichannel at least. This one just shot up near the top of my list of best-sounding SACDs.
I won't post an actual review yet. I'm just on my second listen. But hearing such a great orchestra, in such spectacular sound is simply breathtaking. It almost beats going to the concert. :D
What's interesting here is that the recording is licensed to BMG Ariola by the Vienna Philharmonic, raising some questions as to who actually produced this.
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I bought this SACD today. Now I don't care much for Bruckner's later 2 symphonies but I was able to get this for about $3.50 with a savings coupon I had. I haven't listened to it yet, but plan to this evening
It appears that the same forces will be releasing Smetana's Ma Vlast. Will this be in SACD? Does anyone know?
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Dinko,
encouraged with your good reviews about this recording here, I was just about to click ‘buy’ on amazon.de when I saw absolutely disastrous review on there. Being great Bruckner fans we already have complete sets with Karajan (excellent) and Celibidache (mind-blowing) and quite a few other individual symphonies with different conductors on top of that. I’ve heard a lot of Harnoncourt recordings, and for my ears he is not a natural Brucknerian (talking of mannerisms!). To get any of his symphonies right, especially the magnificent 9th it takes much, much more than just reading the score (the reviewer on amazon.de wasn’t particularly generous towards Vienna Philharmonic’s playing either). The reason why that review struck me is that the person who wrote it is using Celibidache as standard, and rightly so. Among the Bruckner fans, Sergiu Celibidache is a sort of semi-god, and he was never a favourite of Gramophone, while French ‘Diapason’ was pouring praise beyond belief for the same CDs. Anyway, my personal opinion is that if you want to hear any Buckner’s symphony in its full glory you have to hear it with Celibidache (available on EMI).
Now, I’m not trying to say that nobody else can conduct this music just as well, but Harnoncourt is at the bottom of my list of conductors for late romantic austro-german repertoire. That’s why I was so intrigued by your initial praise, so if you don’t me asking, did you have a chance to compare this performance with any other and with whom? I am so inpatient to get Bruckner symphonies in hi-def and surround, and from what you saying the recording is fantastic.
As slow tempi can do wonders with Bruckner’s music, so just for fun here is the comparison of Celibiadche’s and Harnoncourt’s timings:
I 32,26 / 24,17
II 13,47 / 10,39
III 30,37 / 23,54
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beardawgs said:
Dinko,
encouraged with your good reviews about this recording here, I was just about to click ‘buy’ on amazon.de when I saw absolutely disastrous review on there. Being great Bruckner fans we already have complete sets with Karajan (excellent) and Celibidache (mind-blowing) and quite a few other individual symphonies with different conductors on top of that. I’ve heard a lot of Harnoncourt recordings, and for my ears he is not a natural Brucknerian (talking of mannerisms!). To get any of his symphonies right, especially the magnificent 9th it takes much, much more than just reading the score (the reviewer on amazon.de wasn’t particularly generous towards Vienna Philharmonic’s playing either). The reason why that review struck me is that the person who wrote it is using Celibidache as standard, and rightly so. Among the Bruckner fans, Sergiu Celibidache is a sort of semi-god, and he was never a favourite of Gramophone, while French ‘Diapason’ was pouring praise beyond belief for the same CDs. Anyway, my personal opinion is that if you want to hear any Buckner’s symphony in its full glory you have to hear it with Celibidache (available on EMI).
Now, I’m not trying to say that nobody else can conduct this music just as well, but Harnoncourt is at the bottom of my list of conductors for late romantic austro-german repertoire. That’s why I was so intrigued by your initial praise, so if you don’t me asking, did you have a chance to compare this performance with any other and with whom? I am so inpatient to get Bruckner symphonies in hi-def and surround, and from what you saying the recording is fantastic.
As slow tempi can do wonders with Bruckner’s music, so just for fun here is the comparison of Celibiadche’s and Harnoncourt’s timings:
I 32,26 / 24,17
II 13,47 / 10,39
III 30,37 / 23,54
i havent heard this yet, but Gramophone gave this a great review, a rave even, after noting that they didn't expect much initially and were wary of Harnoncourt in Bruckner. So, they were convinced despite preconceptions. I can't usually stand H. and his mannerisms, absolutely hate him in Mozart and Haydn but have come to really admire his Schumann (both the Symphonies and "Genoveva" are excellent, - revelatory even). However, the G'ph review alongside a very good one in (the somewhat less reliable) BBC Music alongside Dinko's has convinced me to overcome my prejudice and seek it out.
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Post by zeus October 23, 2003 (9 of 22)
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beardawgs said:
Anyway, my personal opinion is that if you want to hear any Buckner’s symphony in its full glory you have to hear it with Celibidache (available on EMI).
It's a pity DSD wasn't around when Celibidache was recording (or rather not recording). His philosophies on the importance of preserving hall reverb (and accordingly unwillingness to record for CD) would have been perfectly addressed today. Unfortunately, the sonics on some of his Bruckners are pretty woeful. The strings in the third movement of the 4th (from memory) are bad enough to make your ears bleed.
I also must admit to running hot and cold on Harnoncourt. Though this 9th is an historical issue (because of the Philips completion) and priced very reasonably so I think I'll give it a go.
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Post by Dinko October 23, 2003 (10 of 22)
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I'm not sure why there would be a negative review at amazon.de
Classicstoday also raves about this. Though they prefer the "standard version" to the "SACD version".
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6961
I wonder if they mean stereo vs. multichannel, or CD vs. SACD. I have to disagree in any case. I find the CD great, the SACD stereo better, and the SACD surround the best.
As to other Bruckner Ninths, I had a very, very disappointing first experience in concert last year. Yannick Nézet-Séguin conducting the Orchestre Métropolitain du Grand Montréal. Now, I usually love Nézet-Séguin's readings, and the OMdGM's playing, but in Bruckner's case the show was just bland and boring. So Harnoncourt is only my second experience with Bruckner's ninth.
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