Post by teac4010 September 17, 2012 (101 of 214)
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Euell Neverno said:
SACD players come in all varieties, cost and reliability. In truth, I am not aware that SACD players generally are unreliable.
It's also not easy to copy vinyl without a little annoying snap, crackle and pop, whereas it is easy to copy the CD layer of a hybrid SACD.
Since I began "playing" with universal SACD players, mainly Denons, their ability to read everything has been a chance thing and very frustrating. It seems the cheaper/newer ones sound bad but play better compared to the more expensive models (Denon 1940 vs 3930 for example). My conclusion is the Scarlet book specs are too difficult to meet by the player and media makers, IMHO.
I've been with TT's and RtoR's from the beginning, well almost the beginning. I love the "PRAT" of a properly set up idler (my favorites are old Garrards). I never notice the "freckles" listening to Ted Heath's London Palladium concerts (SMILE).
PS The only reason SACD is appealing to me is the multi-channel capabilities. My Otari MX-5050 running 2ch at 15ips is good enough for stereo ...and believe it or not, my old Sansui Quad receiver can find some encoding in them, as well as the old vinyl, to add the required presence I like. Well, ....... the Pentatone RQR's are another reason. Regards.
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I do remember the Garrard turntables because of the noticeable rumble they inevitably produced. Vinyl has always been a lot of trouble to keep clean, and a really good transducer/cartridge, the best being the moving coil variety, costs a king's ransom and their needles have to be replaced from time to time. That is why many people taped their vinyl, but, of course, that led to its own issues of tape hiss and degradation over time. Everyone who remembers vinyl knows all this. I think you are right though about cheapo SACD players. Most universal players are not very good, although many like the Oppo products. Even the Oppos are probably not up to the standards of dedicated SACD players, which generally are a good deal more expensive. I listen in stereo only and find the quality of well-recorded SACD's to be quite satisfying, particularly as to classical music, which benefits most from truly high fidelity. Would never go back to vinyl with all its issues, but to each his own.
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Post by tailspn September 17, 2012 (103 of 214)
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DSD said:
The two US SACD pressing plants: Sony in Indiana and Crest National in California were considerably less expensive than European and Japanese pressings, neither are currently pressing SACDs. When the two US pressing plants quit pressing SACDs, over 30 American recording companies quit releasing SACDs, the only Americans left are MFSL, Analogue Productions and the various orchestra owned labels such as BSO and SFSO.
Rounder Records gave the reason for ending their SACD program as the increased cost of having SACDs pressed in Europe would raise the retail price too high which they believed would adversely effect sales. MFSL and Analogue Productions raised their retail prices by $5 to help cover the extra pressing cost of European-made SACDs.
I believe if Sony either had continued, or reopens its SACD manufacturing facility in Terre Haute, the SACD manufacturing price would be identical to what it is today. Sony DADC is a worldwide media production company, with offices in major countries. The production price of an SACD is the same the world over, adjusted for currency differences. I believe labels that used the excuse of production costs, especially blaming those costs on Sony no longer pressing SACDs at Terre Haute, are a red herring. Also, most/all boutique labels deal through a broker, not Sony DADC directly, because of minimum volume requirements. It is those independent brokers that ultimately determine the price of producing an SACD.
The price of producing a SACD is about 3X the price of a CD. But, a hybrid SACD is actually a separately produced CD, and SACD(DVD) bonded together. It will always be more expensive, regardless of volume. IMO, the single layer idea, along with plastic made of virgin silk worm nuts are just that. Nuts! It’s a marketing scheme aimed at increasing margin from a low volume niche.
Crest is an interesting story. They were/are a Sony SACD production licensee, who also tried the magical plastic idea, that developed cracking problems around the spindle hole. Whether it was that, or declining volumes, or both that caused them to stop SACD production is not known. While they were in that business though, their pricing was about the same as Sony’s, as is Sonopress’s now.
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Post by audioholik September 17, 2012 (104 of 214)
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DSD said:
there are no pressing plants in third world countries such as China being used to print your books and Apple products.
If Sony built any SACD pressing plants in China they would be burned to the ground anyway... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19620700
...it's safer for Japanese companies to invest in Europe
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Post by rammiepie September 17, 2012 (105 of 214)
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audioholik said:
If Sony built any SACD pressing plants in China they would be burned to the ground anyway... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19620700
...it's safer for Japanese companies to invest in Europe
From the looks of the video it would appear that Japanese interests in China will very soon be a thing of the past.
On CNN today, American auto parts manufacturers are facing similar threats from China with Chinese auto parts shipped to other countries being subsidized by the Chinese government thus inhibiting free trade agreements.
And the lopsided import/export agreements between China and the US further threaten our economy, as well, as we are deeply indebted to them for trillions in loans.
As far as an SACD pressing plant in China...........with their lax laws concerning copy protection, etc.....a lot of bogus SACDs (marked as such but NOT really) have been foisted on an unsuspecting public.
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Post by Max74 September 25, 2012 (106 of 214)
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Max74 said:
On a related note: Accuracy Is Not the Answer
http://www.stereophile.com/content/accuracy-not-answer
This is why I am a big fan of Audyssey. Forget its flattening of the frequency response. It is the time domain corrections that it does that really makes the most out of incoming (in the case of SACD) high res PCM signal.
This is why I believe that SACD (or for that matter, DVD-A or carefully recorded Blu Ray) is better than LP.
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Another point. I heard an orchestra of mainly brass, but some flute, clarinet and drums playing last night. And it sounded harsh. People profess the love of the warm sound of vinyl. It is warm but not natural. Or, at least, not as natural as well recorded (high res) digital.
So, yes, SACD is more accurate and natural than LP.
If you don't believe me, try Blue Coast titles, some of which you can download for free, or some Linn sample SACDs that you can pick up for five English pounds.
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Post by Iain September 26, 2012 (109 of 214)
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Post by hiredfox September 26, 2012 (110 of 214)
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rammiepie said:
From the looks of the video it would appear that Japanese interests in China will very soon be a thing of the past.
As indeed will be Japan on current moves!
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