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mdt said:
I have the Jankowsky cycle on CD as well and agree with your judgement.Are you convinced an equivilant or better cast could be assembled today ? Which singers are you thinking of ?
As for the sound i dont think a new recording is necessary, probably it would be done in a studio (instead of lukaskirche) be overproduced an sound worse instead of better.Also the recording was done in the Soundstream sytem which was superior to todays CD standard,such recordings clearly benefit from remastering to SACD, a good example being Telarcs "50k Master transfer to DSD" series.
The only trade-off, of not having a multichannel track means no loss to me.
mdt, i doubt that a better cast could possibly be found and/or brought together. Sadly tho', i have no expectation of the 82-84 set being remastered for sacd, given the state of industry thinking, which seems to be obsessed with MC SACD only. A newly recorded set would be more likely even tho' it probably wouldn't be as good or as stellar as the 82-84 set. Hi ho.
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Post by beardawgs February 10, 2004 (12 of 52)
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Happy to report to anyone interested Wagner, that couple of weekends ago we’ve heard Ivan Fischer conducting 1st and 3rd act of Die Walkure with his Budapest Festival Orchestra in London’s Barbican. I was expecting it will be good, but didn’t expect to be THAT good! If you haven’t had a chance yet to her that Orchestra in live performance (it was our first time btw) they are mind-blowing. Fischer even managed to overcome notoriously dry acoustics of the venue and the sound the orchestra was producing was truly magnificent. Solid and compact, yet warm and transparent. Their recordings we all admire here are not studio gimmickry.
Fischer also placed 1st and 2nd violins on the opposite sides, divided brass section with woodwinds and put double basses far behind the rest in one single line. I’ve heard Staatskapelle Dresden (IMO the best orchestra in the world) in the same venue recently, and the Hungarian orchestra was even better. Fischer knows his Wagner, and has the orchestra which can play whatever he asks from them. He is apparently booked for couple of years to conduct complete Wagner operas all over Europe, and Philips is long overdue for a new complete Ring cycle.
The singers were Petra Lang as Sieglinde/Brunnhilde and John Tomlinson as Wotan, so no surprises there. Lang’s voice wasn’t really suitable for Sieglinde, but as Brunhilde she was impressive. Tomlinson’s Wotan’s farewell was emotional as I’ve never heard it before.
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Post by tream February 11, 2004 (13 of 52)
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beardawgs said:
Happy to report to anyone interested Wagner, that couple of weekends ago we’ve heard Ivan Fischer conducting 1st and 3rd act of Die Walkure with his Budapest Festival Orchestra in London’s Barbican. I was expecting it will be good, but didn’t expect to be THAT good! If you haven’t had a chance yet to her that Orchestra in live performance (it was our first time btw) they are mind-blowing. Fischer even managed to overcome notoriously dry acoustics of the venue and the sound the orchestra was producing was truly magnificent. Solid and compact, yet warm and transparent. Their recordings we all admire here are not studio gimmickry.
Fischer also placed 1st and 2nd violins on the opposite sides, divided brass section with woodwinds and put double basses far behind the rest in one single line. I’ve heard Staatskapelle Dresden (IMO the best orchestra in the world) in the same venue recently, and the Hungarian orchestra was even better. Fischer knows his Wagner, and has the orchestra which can play whatever he asks from them. He is apparently booked for couple of years to conduct complete Wagner operas all over Europe, and Philips is long overdue for a new complete Ring cycle.
The singers were Petra Lang as Sieglinde/Brunnhilde and John Tomlinson as Wotan, so no surprises there. Lang’s voice wasn’t really suitable for Sieglinde, but as Brunhilde she was impressive. Tomlinson’s Wotan’s farewell was emotional as I’ve never heard it before.
What about Antonio Pappano - haven't heard him in the flesh myself (or in Wagner on disc) but he seems to be getting good notices - one of his EMI Wagners made R2D4 in Stereophile (Ring scenes with Domingo-I think I'm talking myself in buying this one, even if on CD, not SACD). Guess one of the issues would be EMI's stance towards SACD.
I notice that you (beardawgs) mentioned that you heard Edo de Waart conduct snippets of Wagner live, and you thought he did a fine job, and you are buying his Wagner disc (on Exton, was that?). I heard him credibly conduct The Ring in San Francisco in 1985, with an excellent cast. His US career has sunk beneath the waves-I believe he is chief conductor in Hong Kong now, which doesn't sound like a super career move, relatively speaking. He made some fine recordings in the 70's and then received a lot of criticism here in San Francisco (too much, I thought). It would be very interesting to see your review after you have heard the recording.
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Post by beardawgs February 11, 2004 (14 of 52)
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tream said:
What about Antonio Pappano - haven't heard him in the flesh myself (or in Wagner on disc) but he seems to be getting good notices - one of his EMI Wagners made R2D4 in Stereophile (Ring scenes with Domingo-I think I'm talking myself in buying this one, even if on CD, not SACD). Guess one of the issues would be EMI's stance towards SACD.
I notice that you (beardawgs) mentioned that you heard Edo de Waart conduct snippets of Wagner live, and you thought he did a fine job, and you are buying his Wagner disc (on Exton, was that?). I heard him credibly conduct The Ring in San Francisco in 1985, with an excellent cast. His US career has sunk beneath the waves-I believe he is chief conductor in Hong Kong now, which doesn't sound like a super career move, relatively speaking. He made some fine recordings in the 70's and then received a lot of criticism here in San Francisco (too much, I thought). It would be very interesting to see your review after you have heard the recording.
Yeah, tream, just ordered de Waart’s Wagner disc on Exton, eagerly awaiting to hear it. Have for couple of years 3 CD set of him conducting orchestral transcriptions of Parsifal, Tristan and the Ring (“Wagner – an orchestral adventure”, with a rather bizarre artwork - see above), conducting the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic (apologies to our Holland friends, newer heard of them before). Well, if you like that kind of thing (orchestral Wagner, that is) can’t recommend it highly enough. And while we were in Sydney a year ago, he was just finishing his last season with the Sydney Symphony, so we had a chance to kill 2 birds at once – good conductor and even better orchestra. I always liked his conducting, and his recording of Saint Saens and Mussorgsky on Pentatone excellent. Shame that he was brushed off in SF, ‘cose I think he is one of the best Wagnerians around.
Pappano was praised in the press for everything he did in the Royal Opera House in London, but he was doing mostly Italian stuff, that we don’t really listen much. So we newer really thought seriously of paying outrageously expensive tickets to hear something that we don’t really like. We have the Domingo disc of love duets from Tristan and Siegfried with Deborah Voight. Now, IMO (and I repeat, IMHO), Domingo is the most unsuitable singer under the Sun to sing anything in German, not just language wise, but also his voice has been strained to much in a different direction. I’ve heard his Lohengrin too many times, and he is just not the helden tenor. Pappano did a good job on that disc, but just the thought of Domingo singing Wagner is putting me off the whole thing. I personally wouldn’t hold my breath about him (Pappano) as a new Wagnerian, but he is definitely a rising star… (Need to explain why we have that disc at all – that is the only recording of the concert version of the love duet from Tristan with alternative ending, in the opera itself they never finish it: king Marke is interrupting them just a second before the final climax).
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Post by nucaleena February 12, 2004 (15 of 52)
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tream said:
What about Antonio Pappano - haven't heard him in the flesh myself (or in Wagner on disc) but he seems to be getting good notices - one of his EMI Wagners made R2D4 in Stereophile (Ring scenes with Domingo-I think I'm talking myself in buying this one, even if on CD, not SACD). Guess one of the issues would be EMI's stance towards SACD.
I notice that you (beardawgs) mentioned that you heard Edo de Waart conduct snippets of Wagner live, and you thought he did a fine job, and you are buying his Wagner disc (on Exton, was that?). I heard him credibly conduct The Ring in San Francisco in 1985, with an excellent cast. His US career has sunk beneath the waves-I believe he is chief conductor in Hong Kong now, which doesn't sound like a super career move, relatively speaking. He made some fine recordings in the 70's and then received a lot of criticism here in San Francisco (too much, I thought). It would be very interesting to see your review after you have heard the recording.
i used to go and hear de Waart a lot when I lived in Sydney - a fine and under-rated conductor. I recall hearing him conduct some "bleeding chunks" with flair, blending excitement and objectivity. He made some good discs in Holland and San Fran and elsewhere and I've never understood why his career didn' prosper after that (not that I think the SSO is a downwards move, but the HKSO??) and why he got such stick in San Fran.
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Post by tream February 12, 2004 (16 of 52)
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I have the 3 CD's of transcriptions as well. If anything, the cover art on "Parsifal" is the tamest-Tristan is the most bizarre. I'm not crazy about this kind of thing, as it turns out-I don't think the "Ring" disc works at all, Tristan only marginally, and Parsifal best, possibly because there is so much contemplative orchestral music in Parsifal anyway. At this stage, I'd rather hear a complete act instead of snippets, or "Wagner without words" type of recording. I think these discs do have value for Wagnerite newbies and somtime
I think de Waart was dissed here because of a perception of stodginess that I don't believe was fair. Ozawa had been the glamour boy here - turtleneck, beads, long hair and sandals -very SF (he did give some exciting concerts, and did a long term Haydn cycle, which I respect enormously). Interesting how the careers turned out.
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Post by tream April 9, 2004 (17 of 52)
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beardawgs said:
Yeah, tream, just ordered de Waart’s Wagner disc on Exton, eagerly awaiting to hear it. Have for couple of years 3 CD set of him conducting orchestral transcriptions of Parsifal, Tristan and the Ring (“Wagner – an orchestral adventure”, with a rather bizarre artwork - see above), conducting the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic (apologies to our Holland friends, newer heard of them before). Well, if you like that kind of thing (orchestral Wagner, that is) can’t recommend it highly enough. And while we were in Sydney a year ago, he was just finishing his last season with the Sydney Symphony, so we had a chance to kill 2 birds at once – good conductor and even better orchestra. I always liked his conducting, and his recording of Saint Saens and Mussorgsky on Pentatone excellent. Shame that he was brushed off in SF, ‘cose I think he is one of the best Wagnerians around.
Pappano was praised in the press for everything he did in the Royal Opera House in London, but he was doing mostly Italian stuff, that we don’t really listen much. So we newer really thought seriously of paying outrageously expensive tickets to hear something that we don’t really like. We have the Domingo disc of love duets from Tristan and Siegfried with Deborah Voight. Now, IMO (and I repeat, IMHO), Domingo is the most unsuitable singer under the Sun to sing anything in German, not just language wise, but also his voice has been strained to much in a different direction. I’ve heard his Lohengrin too many times, and he is just not the helden tenor. Pappano did a good job on that disc, but just the thought of Domingo singing Wagner is putting me off the whole thing. I personally wouldn’t hold my breath about him (Pappano) as a new Wagnerian, but he is definitely a rising star… (Need to explain why we have that disc at all – that is the only recording of the concert version of the love duet from Tristan with alternative ending, in the opera itself they never finish it: king Marke is interrupting them just a second before the final climax).
I took this (Parsifal) out for a spin last night and found that the recording producer was in fact Jared Sacks. The other two discs in the series had other producers - Tristan, An Orchestral Passion (with truly lurid cover art) was also produced (as a recording-doubt if anyone associated with Channel had anything to do with with artwork) by Channel Classics, but by others and the "Orchestral Adventure" by others not associated with Mr. Sacks' label. No major comments on comparative sound at the moment as I played it on my bedside "stereo" which doesn't give much of a sense.
Can we hope that the combo of Fischer and Sacks might result in more Wagner on SACD?
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A new (live) recording from last year’s Salzburg Festival of Tristan with Deborah Voight is coming out on DG soon. Thielemann conducting. I was hoping that, being a new recording, DG will go for SACD, but it doesn’t look like - not a word on their website about eventual SACD release. I’m hoping it’s been recorded in Hi-Res, even if just in 24/96 kHz PCM, and maybe, one day…
Fischer would still be my first choice right now for any new Wagner recording, let’s just pray that his new venture with CC will result in some sensible microphone positioning from Mr Sacks.
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Post by mdt April 9, 2004 (19 of 52)
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beardawgs said:
A new (live) recording from last year’s Salzburg Festival of Tristan with Deborah Voight is coming out on DG soon. Thielemann conducting. I was hoping that, being a new recording, DG will go for SACD, but it doesn’t look like - not a word on their website about eventual SACD release. I’m hoping it’s been recorded in Hi-Res, even if just in 24/96 kHz PCM, and maybe, one day…
Fischer would still be my first choice right now for any new Wagner recording, let’s just pray that his new venture with CC will result in some sensible microphone positioning from Mr Sacks.
Does'nt look to bad, Fischers producer at Philips is in on the Channel recordings as well.
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Post by mwagner1 April 10, 2004 (20 of 52)
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Johnno said:
I'd love the Solti to be remastered in DSD as the recordings still sound amazing for their age and I love Solti's sense of the drama. It's still hard to believe that Rheingold was recorded almost 50 years ago!
I bought Thielemann's Alpine Symphony a while ago and rate it very highly. I initially has a small bone to pick with the interpretation at one point but further playings have eliminated that and the SACD sound is gorgeous with wonderful clarity and spaciousness throughout, even in the height of the thunderstorm.
I agree with you and others on having a DSD remastered Solti Ring Cycle....if Decca does that I would buy a new SACD DSD remaster of the Solti Ring Cycle in a heartbeat!!!
I love the sound of the old London recordings and I am not sure what or who is out there NOW than can recreate the sound that Solti got from the Vienna Philharmonic, nor I am not sure who is singing now to equal Nilsson. I still like Windgassen (though that was all done pretty late in his career).
Of course, I am not up on who the latest rage is regarding new heldentenors or uber Brunnhildes. Also, I am not interested in anything from DG, as my first and last DG SACD purchase (of Lang Lang playing with Baremboim and the CSO) is horrible. But then again, I am terribly biased against anything DG...my CD collection of over 1,000 CDs has very little Deutsche Gramophone. And my growing SACD library will never include anymore DG.
So, lets get Decca to remaster the Solti Ring Cycle and make it even better!!!!
Cheers,
Mark in Austin
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