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Nagraboy said:
I'm surprised you thought DSOTM sounded better than Gaucho. DSOTM has never been a reference quality recording, just one that is familiar to a great many people. Gaucho is the final statement from the studio perfectionists Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, and is meticulously polished and crafted producing one of the best sounds of the era. Maybe a system dependent conclusion?
Lots of replies for me to process. I'll get to the rest later tonight, hopefully.
I should clarify that I really liked GAUCHO. I just put it a slight notch below BROTHERS IN ARMS and DARK SIDE OF THE MOON. Perhaps my favoring DSOTM is both listener-dependent and system-dependent. I probably don't yet have as keen an ear for subtle SACD nuances as you long-time SACD listeners have.
My system is probably about average, maybe a tad worse than average, of most listeners. The weak link in my system is probably the source player; I have A Denon DVD-3910. I have a Classe SSP-75 pre/pro and a pair of Classe CA-101 power amps in a vertical bi-amping configuration. My speakers are usually a pair of Magnepan MG-3.5 speakers. However, I am trying to sell a pair of Martin Logan Aeon electrostats and I moved these Martin Logans from their former home in my video system to my 2-channel audio system to best show-off the Martin Logans to potential buyers. Eventually, the Maggies will be back in my main 2-channel audio system, but for now I have only listened to SACD material with the Martin Logans.
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Post by Beagle March 23, 2012 (72 of 85)
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rammiepie said: ...you've been officially PUNKED by Beagle.
I had to look the verb up on Urban Slang, and No, newbie was not punked, just rendered in higher definition. A bunch of us here have got to know one another over the years, and to that knowledge we can now add: "Don't dis Doug's Nats".
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Post by DSD March 23, 2012 (73 of 85)
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rammiepie said:
Or a $500 blu ray player with pictures and sound.....also plug 'n play.
SA-CD_newbie said:
Are you talking about Blu-spec? I don't know much about Blu-spec. My understanding is that Blu-spec CDs do not contain any additional data, just better encoding of the same data. Do Blu-spec CDs sound noticeably better than standard CDs? How do Blu-spec CDs compare to SA-CD versions of the same title?
Blu-Ray is a new high resolution video format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray , whereas Blu-spec is a proprietary process introduced by Sony to manufacture CDs with a blue laser instead of the traditional infra-red laser which can be played on all CD players. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-spec
Blu-spec CDs are 16/44.1k so SACDs of the same title should sound better.
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DSD said:
Blu-Ray is a new high resolution video format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray , whereas Blu-spec is a proprietary process introduced by Sony to manufacture CDs with a blue laser instead of the traditional infra-red laser which can be played on all CD players. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-spec
Blu-spec CDs are 16/44.1k so SACDs of the same title should sound better.
That's what I thought, from my limited knowledge about Blu-spec. Based on someone's Blu-Ray suggestion, I was wondering if maybe Blu-spec might be more than that -- like DVD-A for Blu-Ray players.
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Post by Nagraboy March 24, 2012 (75 of 85)
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SA-CD_newbie said:
That's what I thought, from my limited knowledge about Blu-spec. Based on someone's Blu-Ray suggestion, I was wondering if maybe Blu-spec might be more than that -- like DVD-A for Blu-Ray players.
Multichannel Blu-Ray soundtracks can already exceed the resolution of 5.1 DVD-A. I have a music-only Blu-Ray with 24/192 PCM on all 5.1 channels, whereas DVD-A can only muster 24/96 in 5.1 channels. You can also get Blu-Ray music in 7.1 24/96 sound. Sadly most BD movies seem to be encoded at early '80s technology 16/48. At least it's better than Dolby Digital though.
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SA-CD_newbie said:
That's what I thought, from my limited knowledge about Blu-spec. Based on someone's Blu-Ray suggestion, I was wondering if maybe Blu-spec might be more than that -- like DVD-A for Blu-Ray players.
As you expand your system into multichannel, Doug, you might want to look into the purchase of an OPPO BDP~93 Blu~Ray Player.........at $499 it plays just about everything including SACDs in stereo and multichannel, DVD~Audio, RBCDs, etc. The picture and sound will blow you away.
There's also some popular music released as Blu~Ray audio (only) discs.......Neil Young, Tom Petty, etc and of course some classical fare from 2L Productions and Naxos.
Food for thought, at any rate.
I rest my case...counselor!
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A question about surround sound speakers, when primarily used for listening to multi-channel SACDs... What calibre of speakers do you need for the center and rear channels?
My understanding of center and surround speakers when used in a *video* system is that the surrounds do not need to be of equal quality to the mains. The center channel, while more prominent than the surrounds, typically is still of a slightly lower quality than the mains.
However, when assembling a surround system primarily for listening to multi-channel SACDs I suspect that you might need to have center and surround speakers that are of equal quality to your mains. Is that an accurate assumption? If so, that will greatly delay my incorporating multi-channel surround in my audio system. It will be quite some time before I obtain additional Magnepan MG-3.5 speakers.
I recently obtained surround speakers for my video system, which I am in the process of re-configuring now that I moved the Martin Logan Aeons out of my video system. I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs for the mains, a Magnepan MMG-C for the center and a pair of MMG-Ws for the rear surrounds, complimented by an HSU Research subwoofer. My DVD/BD player is a run-of-the-mill Panasonic Blu-Ray player. I don't even know whether it has SACD capability. I could replace that with the Oppo or something similar, but I don't know how much multi-channel listening I would do, especially when I've got a much nicer 2-channel setup.
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SA-CD_newbie said:
A question about surround sound speakers, when primarily used for listening to multi-channel SACDs... What calibre of speakers do you need for the center and rear channels?
In a perfect world we would all have 5 identical full range loudspeakers when listening to multichannel SACD. However in truth, most listeners use their home theatre system to reproduce their surround SACDs so there will always be some compromise from the ideal. I think so long as the surround and centre channels are matched ( ie from the same brand and series as the front pair ) then I dought you will loose a great deal in reality. The centre channel will, in my opinion, be more important than the surrounds in the same way as it is so for movie viewing. Selecting the largest centre channel in the range that matches your front pair would be recommended. At least if nothing else Timbre will remain consistant across the soundfield.
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Post by Nagraboy March 24, 2012 (79 of 85)
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As already said, the ideal is 5 identical speakers. A more practical solution could be to use smaller surround speakers from the same range (if possible) as your Front channels and add a good quality subwoofer to fill in the bass that the small rears can't play. Many get by without a centre speaker - including our own Rammie - but again the ideal is to have the same three speakers across the front. I'd rather have no centre speaker than a low quality option muddying the central image.
So maybe the most economical thing would be to get some small, high quality rears and a comprehensively adjustable subwoofer.
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I can vouch for the Oppo as I've had the 970 and the 980 and now I am waiting for my Oppo BDp-93 to arrive. "Dark Side.." and "Gaucho" are great in multichannel.
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