Post by seth August 25, 2005 (11 of 27)
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armenian said:
As for Zimmerman, Hahn, Midori, and all the new generation of violonists, the jet age violonist, to me they all sound alike, if you like one you like them all, how can you tell the difference?
A lot of it has to do with age. They may posses the technical skills, but they lack years of experience. It's going to be a while until Hahn's interpretations can intellectually match the masters of yesteryear.
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Post by seth August 25, 2005 (12 of 27)
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ramesh said:
Thanks to Petey and Chris for their nice reviews at opposing poles.
I had rather hoped for this M4 not to appear, as I've always been waiting for the Szell M4 to appear on SACD, and I don't think BMG/Sony will release two M4s in quick succession. In fact, I'd given away my CD of the Szell as a wedding present, assuming it would be released in the new format! I cannot understand the reasoning of the knuckle-headed Japs at Sony HQ who decided to issue Walter's Brahms 4 and Beethoven 6 without their CD couplings, and the Bernstein M1 minus the adagio to the 10th; and not release the Szell M4.
I've always thought of Szell's M4 as being cool in the sense of vernal, not detached. I wonder whether, considerations of tempo aside, there are differing opinions as to the worth of musical performances of the Romantic repertoire especially, because of the different weightings listeners give to considerations of phrasing ( horizontal line), versus balance (vertical line). Szell exploited the impeccable technique of the Clevelanders especially in this M4, by the translucency with which he balanced the textures. I never really warmed to the Solti Chicago Mahler, and I've wondered whether this had something in part to do with Szell's superior skill in balancing the orchestra. By the way, what do peeople think of Mengelberg's 1940 version? Karajan and Szell are very steady in the finale, but Mengelberg's wildly veering tempi are closer to Mahler's own piano roll.
I too have been waiting a long time for the Szell M4 to come to SACD. What's so great about it, is that it's such an un-Mahlerian interpretation. Szell conducts it as if it were written by R. Struass (and even Mozart -- he conducted everything as if it were Mozart). I agree with your comments about how it is cool, though I see it more in a mellow sense -- listen to his creamy basses and deep sounding wood winds in the first movement. But then when the orchestra needs to be chunky, it is.
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Sorry, but I am deeply offended by the comment "Japs." Please find another word or extend the word out to refer to this group of people.
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Post by ramesh August 26, 2005 (14 of 27)
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Dear Flying( Hope you aren't deeply offended by my omission of the 'Dutchman', nor my ironic use of the English phrase 'double Dutch' in my post), you are partially quite correct. I ought to state for the record, I find the Japanese extremely cultured, though I wish they would go easy on the whales. It is indeed ironic that, when people consider that Bruckner symphonies breathe the alpine air of Austria, to the tinkle of cowbells, that I've had to source my Böhm Bruckner 4 and the Wand Bruckner series from the enlightened policies of Japanese companies, so now I'll consider that Bruckner symphonies breathe the air of Mt Fuji and cattle fattened on low alcohol Japanese beer and all the wasabi they can chew.
I actually had no offensive connotations planned with that word, but now that I know that some people find it offensive, I hope they'll understand I only meant to be scathing and insulting to Sony Music, because they have abandoned their own SACD medium. In fact, now that I know some people find it more offensive than I had planned, it's even better. We tend to shorten the names of some nationalities eg Australians/Aussies, New Zealanders/Kiwis, Indonesians/Indos, Japanese/Japs, English/ Pommie whingers, etc.
For those who found the phrase distasteful, please substitute the following: 'Those Sony Music executives deserve to be minke whales swimming in the name of scientific research, including that really pasty-faced guy at the top'. I ought to add, that the fact that my maternal grandfather disappeared during the Imperial Japanese Army's occupation of Malaya during World War 2, played no part in my skepticism about Sony Classical!
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Post by akiralx August 26, 2005 (15 of 27)
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seth said:
Hahn? How about one of David Oistrakh's 10 recordings (that includes studio and live recordings for radio).
I do vastly prefer Oistrakh to Heifetz, for sure - but I was quoting the other two mainly as they date from the 1990s onwards.
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Post by akiralx August 26, 2005 (16 of 27)
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seth said:
A lot of it has to do with age. They may posses the technical skills, but they lack years of experience. It's going to be a while until Hahn's interpretations can intellectually match the masters of yesteryear.
I can't agree - I don't think Heifetz, Oistrakh, Grumiaux and others regarded themselves as intellectuals. And how often have we all preferred an artist's first interpretations over later ones of the same work? Certainly true of Heifetz for me in terms of the Beethoven and Brahms concertos - and for Rubinstein's Chopin (pre-war on EMI surpassing his stereo recordings).
Heifetz being admired particularly by other violinists is certainly true and quite interesting - I think they appreciated his art in terms of technical facility, while many critics and audiences didn't like the results in terms of how he perceived the actual music. I just can't buy into the theorem that 'this guy is a phenomenally gifted violinist - so what he plays must be good, mustn't it?'
Charles Rosen gives some wonderful insights into this side of being a soloist in his short book 'Piano Notes: The Hidden World of the Pianist', which I really recommend - he admits than most concert pianists get more of a 'buzz' from the actual tactile skill of piano playing rather than from the musical result. For them it's a particularly satisfying form of manual labour.
FWIW I do prefer Hahn's interpretation of the Brahms Concerto over Heifetz, Oistrakh, Menuhin, Suk, Ferras, Milstein, Grumiaux, Mutter, Perlman and Mullova - in fact I bought it twice: on SACD for home listening, and RBCD for the car and to rip to my mp3!
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Post by seth August 26, 2005 (17 of 27)
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akiralx said:
I can't agree - I don't think Heifetz, Oistrakh, Grumiaux and others regarded themselves as intellectuals.
That might be true, but they knew the repertoire inside out like no one else
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Post by Ovation April 12, 2006 (18 of 27)
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Last night I attended an MSO performance of Glazunov's Violin Concerto with Hilary Hahn as the soloist, as well as Mahler's Fourth with Isabel Bayrakdarian as the soprano. I mention this because each of these works is available in the Living Stereo SACD series (I have both of them). I should point out that I'm a newish classical listener (I've been involved with music for a long time, both as a listener and the occasional recording sessions, but my primary focus has jazz and pop, until now) and I'm only slowing becoming familiar with the vast repertoire of classical recordings. Last night's concert was very good (and that according to my friend whose knowledge of classical music is quite high and whom I respect) and the performances, to me, were at least as enjoyable as the Living Stereo discs. That said, without those discs (and their very reasonable prices), I would be far poorer in my knowledge of classical music. I'm surprised to see them denigrated--not because I refuse to believe there are better performances out there--but because I think on a cost/benefit plan alone, they are both an excellent introduction to classical music for newbies like myself as well as shining examples of sound recording techniques that stand up well to the test of time.
It would be nice if the entire music industry converted to hybrid SACD/CD production (the sales volume alone would drive down prices) but, barring that, I think we should be happy anyone remembers to put out high resolution recordings of at least decent performances.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Claude April 13, 2006 (19 of 27)
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In my view, the biggest merits in promoting classical music go to Naxos, because they offer a huge repertoire (now the largest in print repertoire of all classical labels) at prices that everyone can afford ($6-7), without compromising on the artistic or technical quality of the discs. They really deserve to be so popular.
As to SACD, the labels probably think that only multichannel recordings (quadro or 3-track) or "cult recordings" (like the Living Stereo or Mercury discs) are worth reissuing in hi-rez. I would like so see more SACDs of recordings from Decca's, Philips' or Deutsche Grammophon's "golden past". The Universal Classics "The Originals" series - now extended to Decca and Philips - would be great for hybrid SACDs. They would still have their budget Eloquence CD series to compete with Naxos.
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Post by Ovation April 14, 2006 (20 of 27)
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Claude said:
In my view, the biggest merits in promoting classical music go to Naxos, because they offer a huge repertoire (now the largest in print repertoire of all classical labels) at prices that everyone can afford ($6-7), without compromising on the artistic or technical quality of the discs. They really deserve to be so popular.
As to SACD, the labels probably think that only multichannel recordings (quadro or 3-track) or "cult recordings" (like the Living Stereo or Mercury discs) are worth reissuing in hi-rez. I would like so see more SACDs of recordings from Decca's, Philips' or Deutsche Grammophon's "golden past". The Universal Classics "The Originals" series - now extended to Decca and Philips - would be great for hybrid SACDs. They would still have their budget Eloquence CD series to compete with Naxos.
The Eloquence series has a lot of Ambisonic surround issues and I wonder if converting them to MCH would be a straightforward (and relatively inexpensive) way to go.
Naxos certainly deserves their success and you are right to credit them. I have a number of their hi-res recordings (in DVD-A) and they do a fantastic (and reasonably priced) job with those as well.
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