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AmonRa said:
My quess is that successive approximation conversion ADCs cost much, much more than that. They are still used in some expensive professional digital converters (Lavry gold for example) but nowhere else, as DSD->PCM chips really cost just a few bucks and get the job done just fine.
What a manufacturer has to pay for a PCM dac is a pittance compared to the overall cost of a CD player. Yet the vast majority of PCM implementations (close to 100%), from CD, DVD, Blu-ray to 352,8kHz DXD are based on Delta-sigma.
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Post by hiredfox August 23, 2011 (42 of 62)
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canonical said:
... there are lots of record companies ... don't always want to state what they are selling. Caveat emptor.
Bit disingenuous, many recording companies especially in the early days of SACD may simply have assumed that buyers would not be interested in recording details. That has changed now but some still forget to do it!
Also don't rule out that the record producers themselves may not actually know what technical arrangements were used during recording and editing beyond a few generalisations (Sonoma Workstation???).
Even our beloved Robert has been flat-footed on a number of occasions on exactly what went on during the recording of some of his BIS recordings.
Zeus does his best to unravel the mysteries but at the end of the day it is word of mouth of individuals and who do you trust.
The big test is always at playback - if you have a system that is discerning enough. The nearer you get to DSD purity, the more you lose that etched two-dimensional sound-staging effect of RBCD. People talk about "more air" what that sounds like to me is "more three-dimensionality (volume)" [volume as in geometry].
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Post by AmonRa August 23, 2011 (43 of 62)
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audioholik said:
What a manufacturer has to pay for a PCM dac is a pittance compared to the overall cost of a CD player. Yet the vast majority of PCM implementations (close to 100%), from CD, DVD, Blu-ray to 352,8kHz DXD are based on Delta-sigma.
Non-1-bit DACs are so rare now, that they do cost more than a pittance. Making a 24-step voltage comaparason circuitry with the required accuracy is extremely difficult, while doing a good 1-bit converter costs nothing. And 1-bit solutions work just fine. Decimation is just math = cheap.
My only point was that PCM can be both AD and DA converted without using delta-sigma first stage conversion, old school way, so to say. Never done anymore exept in some $10000 pro units.
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AmonRa said:
Non-1-bit DACs are so rare now, that they do cost more than a pittance.
You can buy one for a price of 1 SACD.
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Post by tailspn August 23, 2011 (45 of 62)
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audioholik said:
You can buy one for a price of 1 SACD.
Got an example? 24 bit, 88.2KHz or faster?
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Post by steviev August 23, 2011 (47 of 62)
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yair said:
What players out there currently play in DSD? I understand that the two Sony DSD players for instance are discontinued though still available. Are there any plans at Sony to come out with a new model?
Many thanks, Yair
Actually, even Sony's entry-level Costco special BX-38, retailing for $140 in the U.S., outputs pure multichannel DSD via HDMI. It can also output 24/176Hz PCM, if the user chooses that.
And then the problem is that you must connect it to a receiver capable of decoding DSD. Not all do. And even then, who knows what's going on within the receiver? It might be first converting it to PCM before modulating the sound. In the case of the receiver I use, I doubt it converts to PCM, because it's impossible to do any sort of EQ or room correction when the receiver is decoding DSD in Direct Pure mode.
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Post by yair August 23, 2011 (48 of 62)
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steviev said:
Actually, even Sony's entry-level Costco special BX-38, retailing for $140 in the U.S., outputs pure multichannel DSD via HDMI. It can also output 24/176Hz PCM, if the user chooses that.
And then the problem is that you must connect it to a receiver capable of decoding DSD. Not all do. And even then, who knows what's going on within the receiver? It might be first converting it to PCM before modulating the sound. In the case of the receiver I use, I doubt it converts to PCM, because it's impossible to do any sort of EQ or room correction when the receiver is decoding DSD in Direct Pure mode.
That is a real bargain, I'm quite amazed how cheap technology has become. It has a digital output, so could be connected to a DSD DAC such as the Mytek for instance? How good is its analogue output- bearing in mind the price...?
alternatively, what amps with high quality internal DAC are there on the market?
Any views on the budget priced Sony XE 800 which also plays DSD discs which one could in theory author on a PC, or about any other DSD DAC?
many thanks, Yair
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Post by tailspn August 23, 2011 (49 of 62)
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yair said:
That is a real bargain, I'm quite amazed how cheap technology has become. It has a digital output, so could be connected to a DSD DAC such as the Mytek for instance?
It's HDMI output could not be connected to a Mytek. It would require a receiver with HDMI input. The 8X192 Mytek can input DSD only in SDIF, and the new Stereo 192 either through SDIF or USB 2.0. There are as yet no transports that output DSD over SDIF or USB 2.0.
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Post by tailspn August 23, 2011 (50 of 62)
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