Post by Stuart May 31, 2011 (21 of 63)
|
|
Thank you all who took the time and trouble to read and to respond to my post.
I've scoured around the Web a bit more and have concluded that my experience seems to replicate--if, in a somewhat more painful manner--several others who have complained of "listener's fatigue." Although the syndrome does seem far more common with the CD format, there are many postings out there that do describe audio fatigue while listening to SACDs. Perhaps the format itself is not at fault, but the fact is that there are many SACDs that are oddly mixed and may strain the ears of the first-time listener, even at low volumes: there may be some truth to the Pink Floyd critiques. Hopefully, the latter is the case and that I would not blame the Beethoven, Mendelssohn, or Rimsky-Korsakov records that I spent most of my time listening to.
|
|
|
Post by hiredfox June 1, 2011 (22 of 63)
|
|
Disbeliever said:
Do not understand this silly useless comment ******'s meant Yawn!
I am sure it meant that so far we have avoided the language of the gutter on this forum and long may we continue to do so.
You are not the first to break ranks but let's hope you are the last.
Call me a prude if you like - in fact I am not - but what's difficult about finding 1000 more suitable and entertaining adjectives or adverbs.
... and what's different between using expletives from reported speech and actually using them oneself? Doesn't it say the same thing about the author?
|
|
|
|
|
|
hiredfox said:
I am sure it meant that so far we have avoided the language of the gutter on this forum and long may we continue to do so.
You are not the first to break ranks but let's hope you are the last.
Call me a prude if you like - in fact I am not - but what's difficult about finding 1000 more suitable and entertaining adjectives or adverbs.
... and what's different between using expletives from reported speech and actually using them oneself? Doesn't it say the same thing about the author?
HF You are a complete chump as I have long suspected. I have only repeated the language of the gutter as coming from the rubbish Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon SACD, I assume you have not heard it ? and I wrote fcuk as much used on clothing from fc uk and accepted recently in the UK and relished by millions of fans including many on this Forum who could not care less they all love crap.
|
|
|
Post by Ear June 1, 2011 (24 of 63)
|
|
Well, what hiredfox said and that I am so tired of the same old and totally biased and childish (imho) bashing of Pink Floyd. Again, with the 'I am fucking mad'... Do you like Picasso and Dali, Disbeliever? Probably not...
I would so welcome a challing and argument based discussion on this subject, but this is just shallow in my oppinion, with no effort to go in depth at all, something that is utterly important for real criticism and really starts to annoy me. Heck, I am not a saint, if one feels really strongly about something, everyone has the right to just blurt out once or twice... but again and again and again and in every thread where PF is mentioned? As I said: yawn!
If I take you to seriously, Disbeliever, sorry. If it this is meant as tongue in cheek... Ok...
Otherwise, I will just ignore your posts about that from now on...
And to say something on the topic:
I have never experienced such a thing with any of my music! This sounds very serious and I suggest that you should see a doctor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ear said:
Well, what hiredfox said and that I am so tired of the same old and totally biased and childish (imho) bashing of Pink Floyd. Again, with the 'I am fucking mad'... Do you like Picasso and Dali, Disbeliever? Probably not...
I would so welcome a challing and argument based discussion on this subject, but this is just shallow in my oppinion, with no effort to go in depth at all, something that is utterly important for real criticism and really starts to annoy me. Heck, I am not a saint, if one feels really strongly about something, everyone has the right to just blurt out once or twice... but again and again and again and in every thread where PF is mentioned? As I said: yawn!
If I take you to seriously, Disbeliever, sorry. If it this is meant as tongue in cheek... Ok...
Otherwise, I will just ignore your posts about that from now on...
And to say something on the topic:
I have never experienced such a thing with any of my music! This sounds very serious and I suggest that you should see a doctor.
Only repeated because of H.Fox I did see a Dr last week I had a pain in the knee(not in the head from listening to too many CD's). now xrayed and fortunately its got better. You are perfectly entitled to ignore my posts and I recommend that you do so ,stress may give you problems.
|
|
|
Post by Ear June 1, 2011 (26 of 63)
|
|
This actually made me smile a bit ;) I did not mean YOU should see a doctor... I meant Stuart. It was on topic.
And I meant your first post on the PF matter before HF replied. But anyhow... I just chose, not to take that serious anymore. So have a nice day. :D
|
|
|
Post by steviev June 1, 2011 (27 of 63)
|
|
Stuart said:
Thank you all who took the time and trouble to read and to respond to my post.
[...]
Just one more. I doubt it was caused by the SACDs. It was probably just some infection or otherwise unrelated problem with your ears that happened to coincide with listening to SACD for the first time. I would try SACD at some time after you feel better, and see what happens; assuming you're not just trying to bait people here.
|
|
|
Post by pacwin June 4, 2011 (28 of 63)
|
|
Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? I could certainly use the help. I could audition another SACD player, but I certainly don't want to go through another painful learning experience, one that will leave my ears inflamed and my hearing damaged. It could be that the SACD format is just not for me.
It may be that your analogue output from the Integra into the NAD is mismatched.
The Analogue out voltage on the Integra is fixed at 2V which is common for audiophile equipment but the input sensitivity on the NAD is I believe 300mv (0.3 volt) which is common for consumer equipment. Its quite possible that the analogue input on the NAD box is being overwhelmed and causing harmful distortion especially during peak levels.
If this theory is right should should get audio fatique and stress from an ordinary CD/DVD played on the Integra especially if mastered loud. It should also be noticeable that you dont need as much volume when playing SACD
I did this very quickly. I reccomend you pour over the manuals to confirm my rushed guess.
At the least try the Integra into a receiver with more tolerant input sensitivity or gasp use an attenuator in the signal path.
Not only the voltage mismatch but the Integra is potentialy poking >20kHz frequencies into the NAD device which is only rated for 20hz-20kHz and this may also be causing distortion and spuriae which hurt your ears/speakers and also lead to fatique.
|
|
|
Post by Stuart June 4, 2011 (29 of 63)
|
|
pacwin said:
It may be that your analogue output from the Integra into the NAD is mismatched.
The Analogue out voltage on the Integra is fixed at 2V which is common for audiophile equipment but the input sensitivity on the NAD is I believe 300mv (0.3 volt) which is common for consumer equipment. Its quite possible that the analogue input on the NAD box is being overwhelmed and causing harmful distortion especially during peak levels.
If this theory is right should should get audio fatique and stress from an ordinary CD/DVD played on the Integra especially if mastered loud. It should also be noticeable that you dont need as much volume when playing SACD
I did this very quickly. I reccomend you pour over the manuals to confirm my rushed guess.
At the least try the Integra into a receiver with more tolerant input sensitivity or gasp use an attenuator in the signal path.
Not only the voltage mismatch but the Integra is potentialy poking >20kHz frequencies into the NAD device which is only rated for 20hz-20kHz and this may also be causing distortion and spuriae which hurt your ears/speakers and also lead to fatique.
pacwin,
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments. After checking the owner's manual to both components, I did find that you are correct about the mismatch between the output voltage of the Integra SACD player and the input sensitivity of the NAD receiver.
Last night, before reading your new post, I did try to audition some discs--one week after my initial, rather painful experiment with SACD--to eliminate any of the other possible causes of listener's fatigue mentioned previously in this thread (it was the Pink Floyd I was playing, I must have been a drunkard, I must have been physically/mentally ill, etc, etc). Surprisingly alert, healthy, and sober, I put on a copy of the highly acclaimed "Russian Violin Concertos" by Julia Fischer. A few minutes of cross-comparison between the CD layer on my NAD and the SACD version on the Integra did not deviate from the results that I experienced last week. I found the SACD layer to be far more musical than the CD, but still very painful to listen to, owing to some brightness in the output. Despite any mismatch in the Integra's and NAD's sensitivity levels, I'm wondering if that would account for the brightness and pain I encountered at the very low volumes I listened at. I might also add, that I have recently found similar complaints about the brightness of SACDs in many audio forums throughout the Web, so I now know that I am far from being alone in my travails.
I must confess that it's been both a painful, trying, and sometimes unintentionally humorous experience attempting to set myself up with an SACD system. Even in the music-friendly city of San Francisco where I live, and where there are many high-end audio establishments, I have found myself shown the door more than once at boutique hi-fi retailers for daring to ask about SACD (to say nothing of the derision I receive when inquiring about its surround-sound dimension). In short, the thoughtful responses, such as pacwin's above, are much appreciated. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Stuart said:
pacwin,
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments. After checking the owner's manual to both components, I did find that you are correct about the mismatch between the output voltage of the Integra SACD player and the input sensitivity of the NAD receiver.
Are your speakers extremely bright? They could be overly so, perhaps?
|
|
