Post by Bobpaule August 11, 2013 (291 of 399)
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Kal Rubinson said:
"pure, gorgeous analog!" Funny.
May be funny to you but the poster you replied to discovered something new. I too started like him, now i even have a stereo preamplifier in the pathway.
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Post by Iain August 11, 2013 (292 of 399)
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mx2005 said:
Sorry to interrupt -- but based on the thread title I thought I'd add this.... I don't claim that this would be the best multichannel player, but for anyone who has accepted that HDMI is the way to go then the Pioneer BDP-450 would seem to be ideal. It is a true transport - there are no analogue electronics on board (this appeals to me intellectually) and it squirts SACD out at either 88.2kHz PCM or as DSD. My old Oppo DV983H was PCM only. Now, I don't know whether there's any improvement by letting the Yamaha receiver handle DSD (it is undoubtedly converting to PCM anyway) but I think there's a touch more sparkle and life this way. That may well be expectation bias, though. Either way I'm thrilled with the player - it does DVD-A as well as blu-ray too.
Whilst this is probably correct, I'm currently leery of anything with Pioneer logo.
Have you seen their latest quarterly financial report?
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Post by mx2005 August 11, 2013 (293 of 399)
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I didn't really concern myself too much with that - the alternative for me was to buy Cambridge or Oppo (and I didn't want to spend the extra) or go Sony and lose the DVD-A support. You pays your money....
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Post by mx2005 August 11, 2013 (294 of 399)
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Marantz UD5007 looks interesting.... but at least £100 more than the Pioneer
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My Linn Unidisc SC failed yet again last month, the drive was the problem once again, and i have had it replaced twice before. So I auditioned the Oppo 105 as a replacement. I was impressed with its sound, then I plugged it straight into the Linn power amps, using Audioquest Sky interconnects, the sound is better, and I prefer it. I also cut out my PS Audio DAC I was using for streaming and used an Apple TV via an Audioquest Vodka HDMI, straight into the Oppo, I prefer the sound on that too. Then I bought the Mahler first as a DSD multi channel download. It eclipses the SACD a little bit, has even finer sound staging. The Oppo is a very impressive player.
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Bobpaule said:
May be funny to you but the poster you replied to discovered something new. I too started like him, now i even have a stereo preamplifier in the pathway.
It was not his discovery or preference that struck me as funny but that he described the playing of a digital source as "pure, gorgeous analog."
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Kal Rubinson said:
Inveterate stereo listeners have adapted to having more room contributions than necessary (some is, of course) and that is their subjective reference. This imposes a bias, to which they are entitled. Adding good EQ (such Audyssey, Trinnov or DEQX) to a stereo setup is, imho, liberating if one can listen with an open mind.
The value with MCH is, perhaps, less since the multichannel sources will, somewhat, override the room's influence. However, MCH listeners are, I believe, statistically more open-minded since they have already accepted the premise of recreation of true ambience.
There may indeed be some attitudinal issues among those "inveterate [recalcitrant? :-)] stereo listeners." What you neglect to mention, however, is that stereo listeners have fewer options in the market than mch listeners, much of the equipment for which includes room EQ circuitry. In addition, room EQ operates in pcm requiring a conversion from DSD and an additional conversion to analogue, whereas DAQ's in much modern stereo equipment provide a direct conversion from DSD to analogue. The benefit of that direct conversion is at least theoretically desirable.
Then there is also, of course, the issue of equipment matching, where analogue output circuitry is of prime importance.
You disagree that room EQ is more important for mch than stereo and, of course, one must respect your learned opinion. There are, however, quite a number of conflicting opinions on the web. But, I suppose that is the nature of the beast.
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Post by Fugue August 11, 2013 (298 of 399)
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Post by Iain August 11, 2013 (299 of 399)
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mx2005 said:
I didn't really concern myself too much with that - the alternative for me was to buy Cambridge or Oppo (and I didn't want to spend the extra) or go Sony and lose the DVD-A support. You pays your money....
Your loss if Pioneer ceases to exist.
It means lack of any support whatsoever in future. No replacement parts availability, no streaming media from company servers, no customer service reps and most important of all is build quality. Pioneer have had that dodgy build quality reputation for years.
Perhaps you should concern yourself with that. It's always the first thing I look at when considering kit purchase.
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Post by mx2005 August 11, 2013 (300 of 399)
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I have no axe to grind, personally. My experiences with Pioneer have always been good over the years (DVD players "back in the day") - the way I see it I have a warranty that is the responsibility of the retailer not Pioneer. Everything you say is apt, but if Pioneer ceases to exist tomorrow I still own a capable player with a warranty. If I were concerned about web services my opinion may be different. For the mechanical faults that disc players suffer, support disappears (or repair becomes uneconomical) whether the maker fails or not. If we get to squeamish because of financial results, and flee like rats deserting a sinking ship, we just end up having a hand in hastening their demise.
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