Post by AmonRa March 4, 2011 (11 of 19)
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Naturally the mahogany trimmings must be re-oiled with the best danish furniture oils to keep the soundstage from collapsing. The same oil is recommended for the shakti hallographs, but certainly everybody knows that already.
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Whitehall said:
I picked up a used dbx expander (model 228, a single band model) and have found it very useful for FM listening, LPs, and many CDs.
For SACDs, I think I'm hearing that some original analogue recordings benefit since the tapes were compressed at the studio. It can reduce some tape hiss too. I'm not hearing much dynamic improvement with DSD-recorded material though.
Somewhere I read that SACDs had so much high frequency content that it would somehow confound the dbx process but I haven't seen much evidence of that.
Anyone else like to confirm or refine my observations and maybe expound on the subject more? How about the other processors like the RG-20 or the BBE Sonic Maximizer? We all like to keep the single path as simple and clean as possibile but studio-quality devices like these were used in the original recording and mixing and seem to be worthwhile on the playback end if used wisely.
DBX is, by technology standards, a rather ancient tool. The last thing I would want to do is rob SACD of some of its inherent transparency by inserting an analog device in the signal path, although I cannot dispute your findings with older recordings.
And, Arnaldo, just so that you know, there is no such loss of transparency if the signal is kept in the digital domain, as with a digital prepro with DSP speaker distance, bass management, Audyssey, ARC or other EQ. I am indeed a purist about minimizing distortion and maximizing transparency. Digital circuits are quite different from analog in this regard both in theory and, where it really matters, to my ears.
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AmonRa said:
Naturally the mahogany trimmings must be re-oiled with the best danish furniture oils to keep the soundstage from collapsing. The same oil is recommended for the shakti hallographs, but certainly everybody knows that already.
Joke all you want about the Shakti Holograms but they really do work. But then I really guess in this day and age IGNORANCE is BLISS! As for Walker Audio's Ultra Vivid Polish....even famed pianist Keith Jarrett is a believer and I do believe he knows a little something about sound (ECM records recording artist)!
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Post by Claude March 4, 2011 (14 of 19)
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Zammo said:
Ahhh, you can never have too much dynamic range.
Are you listening to classical music?
The full dynamic range of a symphony orchestra is too much for any home.
In the early CD days, the german manufacturer Jecklin (mainly known for it's weird headphones) sold a dynamics reduction circuit device, which was quite popular, because many audiophiles used to vinyl couldn't cope with the dynamic range of CD.
With some close-up recordings, the dynamics heard on CD or SACD can actually be higher than what you hear in a concert.
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Claude, funny you say that. Having lived with the Meridian SooLoos for about 2 months, it has restored my faith in RBCD beyond my wildest dreams. The dynamic range of RBCD and even DTS RBCDs is pretty astounding. Even at low listening levels, the bass shakes the room to its foundations.
Now if only Meridian would put this same uber technology into SACD and BD, we'd have a riot on our hands (but they won't).
As for reproducing the sounds of the concert hall in one's listening environment.........that's a pretty lofty aim......because most well~versed audiophiles acknowledge that this is still a pipe dream.
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Post by Zammo March 4, 2011 (16 of 19)
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Claude said:
Are you listening to classical music?
The full dynamic range of a symphony orchestra is too much for any home.....
With some close-up recordings, the dynamics heard on CD or SACD can actually be higher than what you hear in a concert.
Was being a little tongue in cheek Claude.
Certainly do listen to classical music, though probably not at full reference levels when listening to Mahler et al.
Peak dB levels will of course be dependent on your system (amp power output and speaker sensitivity), number of speakers and distance from them. On my system, it can get slightly uncomfortable when the orchestra is going hammer and tongs. Louder than what the conductor, musicians and first row hear live? Probably not with my current set up.
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Zammo said:
Was being a little tongue in cheek Claude.
Certainly do listen to classical music, though probably not at full reference levels when listening to Mahler et al.
Peak dB levels will of course be dependent on your system (amp power output and speaker sensitivity), number of speakers and distance from them. On my system, it can get slightly uncomfortable when the orchestra is going hammer and tongs. Louder than what the conductor, musicians and first row hear live? Probably not with my current set up.
Take an SPL meter to a live concert, then measure at home. You might be surprised. Undistorted live sound may be louder and more tolerable than you think. In playback on our systems, the inevitible onset of distortion from electronics, the room, speaker dispersion issues, etc., etc. in even the best systems may make it seem louder than it really is. My wife who goes to live classical concerts with me and enjoys them thoroughly thinks I play back much too loudly at home, yet my "optimum" levels are far lower than live. My system is not too shabby, either. Other concert goers I know also play back instinctively at considerably less than live concert levels.
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Post by Whitehall December 17, 2011 (18 of 19)
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I think most of you agree then that the dbx expander brings little to SACDs and generally is not worth the inevitable degradation the extra signal process brings.
There may be some exceptions for poorly recorded or mastered SACDs but those are failures of the supply chain, not inherent in the SACD format.
Still, for some FM broadcasts, expecially commercial rock formats, the dbx process is a net improvement I find.
BTW, I have yet to identify the "breathing" people talk about from the dbx processing.
I'll save my spare change for a 4BX or 5 BX then.
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Post by AmonRa December 17, 2011 (19 of 19)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Take an SPL meter to a live concert, then measure at home. You might be surprised. Undistorted live sound may be louder and more tolerable than you think. In playback on our systems, the inevitible onset of distortion from electronics, the room, speaker dispersion issues, etc., etc. in even the best systems may make it seem louder than it really is.
Speakers are the ones which distort first. Reproduction system should be able to produce about 10 dB SPL more than the loudest listening level used. Only then you can be assured that there is no compression and distortion, which is usually the culprit when listening gets "too loud".
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