Post by glidepath February 6, 2011 (11 of 50)
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I've tried the analogue multi but it does not sound at all better to me than hdmi. So the sound being equal, hdmi wins hands down for me from a ease of use and cable management standpoint. I'm no purist obviously. But for my money (and time) hdmi works very well.
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AmonRa said:
DSD dynamic range is 120 dB at best, and frequency range in practice ends at 35 kHz because of the infamous noise shaping. 24/88.2 has 144 dB dynamic range and noiseless reproduction to well over 40 kHz. So where did half of the DSD data go to? Black hole of technical ignorance?
The black hole of 88.2k pcm...
http://www.merging.com/products/show?product=1&page=11
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Post by rammiepie February 6, 2011 (13 of 50)
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glidepath said:
I've tried the analogue multi but it does not sound at all better to me than hdmi. So the sound being equal, hdmi wins hands down for me from a ease of use and cable management standpoint. I'm no purist obviously. But for my money (and time) hdmi works very well.
In my experience, using the analogue outs in stereo from my Marantz SA112s into my Meridian 861/V.6 sounds much better than either my NuForce Oppo BDP~83 SE and Sony 5400ES via HDMI out........into the Meridian 621/861 V.6 combo..........hands down!
Some pre-pros have inferior analogue paths and cannot reveal the nuances of what's on those discs so sometimes comparisons can be deceiving....for instance, most receivers do not pay attention to analogue at all and will naturally sound better via HDMI.
Unless one "steps up" to the various OPPO players which have the SE designation, one will notice no difference between Analogue or HDMI in which case the HDMI will probably sound better.
And never think that using better analogue cables makes NO difference......because that's really not at all true ... the same way there are distinct differences between HDMI cables, as well.
HDMI is incredibly "convenient" but it's still a relatively new format as opposed to analogue, and in terms of blu~ray picture replication, it's fantastic but music delivery has, as far as I'm concerned, a ways to go.
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rammiepie said:
In my experience, using the analogue outs in stereo from my Marantz SA112s into my Meridian 861/V.6 sounds much better than either my NuForce Oppo BDP~83 SE and Sony 5400ES via HDMI out........into the Meridian 621/861 V.6 combo..........hands down!
Some pre-pros have inferior analogue paths and cannot reveal the nuances of what's on those discs so sometimes comparisons can be deceiving....for instance, most receivers do not pay attention to analogue at all and will naturally sound better via HDMI.
Unless one "steps up" to the various OPPO players which have the SE designation, one will notice no difference between Analogue or HDMI in which case the HDMI will probably sound better.
And never think that using better analogue cables makes NO difference......because that's really not at all true ... the same way there are distinct differences between HDMI cables, as well.
HDMI is incredibly "convenient" but it's still a relatively new format as opposed to analogue, and in terms of blu~ray picture replication, it's fantastic but music delivery has, as far as I'm concerned, a ways to go.
I think your analysis of HDMI vs. analog on cheaper gear is essentially correct. But, I disagree that you can generalize about pricier stuff. There is a lot to Charlie Hansen's critique of HDMI jitter. But, if you really dig into it, you will understand it is not so simple.
In your case, DSD via HDMI cannot be accepted on your Meridian prepro. For SACD, you must listen to uncompressed PCM via the HDMI link. I and other posters here have all heard a substantial diffence between the two on gear that is compatible with both. DSD via HDMI is highly favored. I think that is because it is sent as a compressed datastream, relatively immune to jitter. That's true even though DSD is converted to PCM in the processor.
I think the same goes for Blu-ray. Sending the compressed hi rez Dolby THD or DTS HDMA to the processor invariably sounds beter to me than having the player decode and transmit uncompressed PCM.
Your Meridian is optimized for certain modes of playback, and I do not think HDMI is one of them. Plus, whatever deficits HDMI has, analog cannot use DSP EQ unles the analog signal is reconverted back to digital. I know you are not (yet) on the EQ bandwagon, but it could be that HDMI + EQ sounds better than straight analog on many systems. That's certainly the position of Kal, who you revere, and he has heard a lot of stuff. I agree with him.
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rammiepie said:
In my experience, using the analogue outs in stereo from my Marantz SA112s into my Meridian 861/V.6 sounds much better than either my NuForce Oppo BDP~83 SE and Sony 5400ES via HDMI out........into the Meridian 621/861 V.6 combo..........hands down!
Some pre-pros have inferior analogue paths and cannot reveal the nuances of what's on those discs so sometimes comparisons can be deceiving.....
Sure but the 861 has no analog path at all!! Every analog input is digitized, processed and converted back to analog. So, while your comparison is taken at face value, your analysis is, to say the least, strange.
Kal
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Post by rammiepie February 6, 2011 (16 of 50)
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Kal Rubinson said:
Sure but the 861 has no analog path at all!! Every analog input is digitized, processed and converted back to analog. So, while your comparison is taken at face value, your analysis is, to say the least, strange.
Kal
Kal, I've had Meridian since the early millennium and am fully aware of the fact that it "digitizes" everything but even you asserted previously, that pure DSD out and DSD signals converted to PCM have little or no bearing on the outputted sound quality........
But you also have to concur (no, you don't HAVE to) that the Meridian mimics all input signals and in the case of the V.6 pretty much "nails" it in an extremely "beneficial" way adding/subtracting nothing to the proceedings. IMO, it "gets out of the way" which is what a great piece of equipment is supposed to do.
That you've chosen to "abandon" analogue in favor of HDMI is your decision but also I know you're aware that some of the higher end components have eschewed HDMI in favor of pure analogue.
I know what my ears tell me and what I have reported is what I do hear and I still do not believe that Universal Players (with perhaps the exception of the Ayre) can honestly be considered serious contenders when there ARE so many better "dedicated" SACD/RBCD players out there. I can honestly say that my Meridian 800 "nails" DVD~A playback better than ANY Universal player because it was designed from the ground up ( by the inventor of the format) to do just that as well as DVD and RBCD, but the 808 and the SooLoos are better in stereo DVD~A (the former) and RBCD playback (the latter).
You want to play then you have to pay....until further notice!
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Post by DSD February 6, 2011 (17 of 50)
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rammiepie said:
better "dedicated" SACD/RBCD players out there...
There is an untapped market for dedicated SACD-only players. From the poll on my blog.
WOULD YOU PURCHASE A DEDICATED SACD PLAYER THAT WAS ONLY DSD AND DIDN'T PLAY CDS?
Yes: 65 (39%)
No: 101 (60%)
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Post by rammiepie February 6, 2011 (18 of 50)
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DSD said:
There is an untapped market for dedicated SACD-only players. From the poll on my blog.
WOULD YOU PURCHASE A DEDICATED SACD PLAYER THAT WAS ONLY DSD AND DIDN'T PLAY CDS?
Yes: 65 (39%)
No: 101 (60%)
Teresa, excellent rationale. Since most of us already have a device to play RBCDs, I would think that a player just dedicated to SACD playback would be a godsend......but again, stereo only (which would be your choice) or mch, as well (how much would that compromise the final sound.....IMO, not at all if the same careful engineering was used to ensure parity on ALL levels).
And analogue ALL the way with no "contaminating" digital circuits..........
So when can we be expecting such a player from DSD enterprises?
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rammiepie said:
That you've chosen to "abandon" analogue in favor of HDMI is your decision but also I know you're aware that some of the higher end components have eschewed HDMI in favor of pure analogue.
I know what my ears tell me and what I have reported is what I do hear and I still do not believe that Universal Players (with perhaps the exception of the Ayre) can honestly be considered serious contenders when there ARE so many better "dedicated" SACD/RBCD players out there. I can honestly say that my Meridian 800 "nails" DVD~A playback better than ANY Universal player because it was designed from the ground up ( by the inventor of the format) to do just that as well as DVD and RBCD, but the 808 and the SooLoos are better in stereo DVD~A (the former) and RBCD playback (the latter).
You want to play then you have to pay....until further notice!
I would not say that anyone has "eschewed HDMI" (although I have used that verb with delight). It more likely that there are high end companies that default to analog because they have, will or can not afford to develop HDMI or, very possibly, find that it is effective marketing for their following to appear to "have eschewed HDMI in favor of pure analogue."
It is not a matter of dedicated vs. universal but that, as good as the Meridian v6 is via its analog inputs, they are superfluous. It is hard to accept that bypassing them and the D/A stage of any player cannot result in an improvement.
Kal
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Post by AmonRa February 6, 2011 (20 of 50)
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audioholik said:
The black hole of 88.2k pcm...
http://www.merging.com/products/show?product=1&page=11
There is the funny picture of a 333333 Hz signal in real life and different digital recording systems again. What relevance does this signal, about 15 times higher in frequency than what we hear and ten times higher what SACD can reproduce has with anything?
Yes, Pyramix I am familiar with, I have had their workstation for some years already now.
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