Post by RIKKITIK January 29, 2011 (1 of 10)
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Hi all,
Been lurking on this site for years, but joined only recently.
As the thread title asks, I'm looking for SACD player suggestions. I love my 303/300 and currently use a 5910CI for SACD ,(and the few DVD-A's I own). I've searched and found, (obviously!), diverse opinions. The 5910 will soon go away, most likely replaced by a BDP-83SE. Is the 5400ES in the same league,(or better), than the Cary? Since I like the Cary so much, should I just save my nickles and dimes 'til a used 306SACD or 303T is available. All questions mainly concern the analog out capabilities. I prefer 2ch for music, go ahead, flame away!
I know, kind of rambling, but that's my nature, lol.
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Post by abind January 30, 2011 (2 of 10)
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I recently compared my Sony XA5400ES with my friend's Cary 303/300 on his system. We both found the Sony far inferior to the Cary on RBCD. Compared to the Cary, the Sony soundstage was thin, narrow, and flat, although the overall sound wasn't objectionable (i.e. brightness and digital edge weren't obvious ). By conatrast, the Cary soundstage and instruments were full and rich, and had dimension and depth. The differences were not subtle.
So, as a CD player, the Sony wasn't even close to the Cary.
When we compared the Sony on SACD to the Cary playing the redbook layer of the same CDs, the Sony was definitely better, but not by that wide a margin. THe Sony had even more dimension and depth than the Cary, but the overall quality of sound was quite similar.
In overall sound, just comparing these players to each other, I would rate the Sony RBCD as a 3 or 4, the Cary RBCD as an 8 or 9, and the Sony SACD as a 10. However, my friend felt that the difference between the Cary and the Sony on SACD was greater. He would have placed the Cary at a 6 or 7.
Note that this is not an absolute scale: I'm using the Sony as the 10. I know there might be better out there.
The bottom line was that my friend now has no immediate interest in getting an SACD player. As for me, I had been considering Mods for my Sony, but I will not make any further hardware investments until I can hear a Cary SACD player.
Having said that, I will also mention that I listen primarily in multichannel. In my system, I have found that multichannel is generally an improvement over stereo However, I find that the greatest improvement in sound is when I go from CD to stereo SACD. While I find that going from SACD to surround is generally a further improvement, it's not as great a step forward as going from CD to SACD. Of course, these are my impressions, on my system.
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Post by RIKKITIK January 30, 2011 (3 of 10)
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Thanks. That analagy pretty much parallels my feelings about the Cary vs Denon. If the Denon SACD 2ch were a 10, the Cary in RBCD would be a solid 8+, but the Denon no better than a 4 or 5 on RB. I'm pleased with the sound of the Denon with SACD, I just don't trust the Denon for long term reliability. I've had several Denon's over the years, none has ever quit, but read errors can be VERY common. The Cary has only questioned one disc in the six years I've owned it. And that disc looked the the dog had been licking it. Thanks again.
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Post by Qkizz January 30, 2011 (4 of 10)
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I would say Marantz sa11-s2. It has even been compared to Cary 306 in stereophile, since you mentioned enjoying Cary sound qualities(text you would be interested in is under stereophile Marantz sa11-s2 review). Personally I own sa11-s1 and denon 3910 with modified dacs and opamps. I know that 5910 is a different beast but since between sa11-s1 and 3910 exists a difference that even my wife would tell. I would thing that between S2 and 5910 there is no fair comparison. That's about SACD and RBCD performance.
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I too have compared the SONY 5400ES and NuForce OPPO to the Marantz SA~112S and would definitely pick the Marantz for RBCD playback (coaxial out, of course). I also prefer the Marantz's stereo SACD playback to both the Sony 5400ES and the NuForce Oppo. The Marantz, IMO, is a very solid performer especially if you can score with a demo or open box unit for far below retail, like I did.
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rammiepie said:
I too have compared the SONY 5400ES and NuForce OPPO to the Marantz SA~112S and would definitely pick the Marantz for RBCD playback (coaxial out, of course). I also prefer the Marantz's stereo SACD playback to both the Sony 5400ES and the NuForce Oppo. The Marantz, IMO, is a very solid performer especially if you can score with a demo or open box unit for far below retail, like I did.
Sony XA5400ES sounds best via HDMI into the Sony DA5400ES for MCH SACD & RB CD whereby you get the advantage of H.A.T.S. very low jitter and D.L. L.(digital Legato Linear) for improved RB CD . I found the sound of the Marantz SA7-S1 to be inferior to the sound of my modified Marantz CD94 for RB CD and the SACD on the Marantz hardly worth listening to. At that time I also had the cheap Marantz DVD players where the MCH SACD sounded so much better than the stereo SACD from the SA7-S1 so I sold it on . I still say SACD sounds best in MCH despite what the 2 channel devotees are prepared to accept with old HAT stereo.
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Post by RIKKITIK January 31, 2011 (7 of 10)
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Thanks all for the response. I had been curious about the Marantz, I will try to find a way to listen to one. Either in my own system, or by taking the Cary in to a Marantz dealer.
As to the preference of 2ch vs multi. I just prefer 2ch's done really well, as opposed to 5.1, 7.1, etc., with average performance. Not that multi is lesser by any means, I just don't have the pocket-book, room setup, or inclination to give the extra channels equal attention.
I'm a tube devotee. Baby-sitting multiple channels of KT88's and associated driver tubes doesn't sound like the pleasure/pain ratio I'm looking for! (lol).
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Post by krisjan January 31, 2011 (8 of 10)
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FWIW, I used to own the Cary 306 player and replaced it with the Marantz SA-11S2. Why? I really enjoyed the sound of the Cary on both RBCD and SACD but my concern was long-term reliability of the Cary (which was known at that time to have issues). The SA-11S2 has a sound very similar to the Cary 306. I like what the Marantz does on the top end just a bit better than the Cary (it's a bit more natural sounding to me on both RBCD and SACD) but otherwise these players are very close. Seeing that the SA-11S2 is much less expensive than the Cary, it is a clear value winner IMO.
If I were buying today, I would give a close listen to the new tubed Cary 303T. The tubed output stage may actually swing the hi freq. advantage to the Cary.
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krisjan said:
FWIW, I used to own the Cary 306 player and replaced it with the Marantz SA-11S2. Why? I really enjoyed the sound of the Cary on both RBCD and SACD but my concern was long-term reliability of the Cary (which was known at that time to have issues). The SA-11S2 has a sound very similar to the Cary 306. I like what the Marantz does on the top end just a bit better than the Cary (it's a bit more natural sounding to me on both RBCD and SACD) but otherwise these players are very close. Seeing that the SA-11S2 is much less expensive than the Cary, it is a clear value winner IMO.
If I were buying today, I would give a close listen to the new tubed Cary 303T. The tubed output stage may actually swing the hi freq. advantage to the Cary.
Good move with the SA 112S.......a solid performer and my favorite SACD player over the Oppo and Sony 5400ES......at its price point, it has NO peers. It nails those SHM~SACDs and AP Blue Notes and Impulse SACDs, as well. Very smooth and solid performer, IMO, despite what Disbeliever says about the SA7 which shares the same SACD sound as the SA 112S but betters it in RBCD.
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rammiepie said:
Good move with the SA 112S.......a solid performer and my favorite SACD player over the Oppo and Sony 5400ES......at its price point, it has NO peers. It nails those SHM~SACDs and AP Blue Notes and Impulse SACDs, as well. Very smooth and solid performer, IMO, despite what Disbeliever says about the SA7 which shares the same SACD sound as the SA 112S but betters it in RBCD.
I can not imagine what RBCD sounds like on the Marantz SA112S because you say the SA7-S1 betters it ? . One month after I sold my SA7 -S1 the purchaser resold. . I found it quite amusing that the first review of the Marantz SA7-S1 in Positive Feedback by Mark Lawton said he was now packing up the SA7-S1 and sending it off for modification despite his good but long winded review .Later another even longer absurd completely over the top review by Dr Sarconicus appeared. (must have pleased Marantz) . .
What Hi-Fi ? review of the Marantz SA11-S2 (4 stars out of 5) says lack of bottom-end rigour hampers the Big Marantz Low frequencies could be better controlled & described. This is exactly what I found with the SA7-S1. Not satisfactory for a overweight player that lists at £5100.
From the review by Mark Lawton in Positive feedback he wants the Mod Man to address the following three bullet points( a tall order) 1. Improve dynamics, heft & slam, power punch, ommph etc.
2. Increase transparency, palpability and address blackness of background, it also has a low level (but noticeable amount of "fog" between you and the performers, images are a tad soft around the edges could use some firming up.
3. Tone is a hair on the warm side of neutral, a small correction wouldn't hurt. Tone is also a tad on the dry side. No wonder a follow up of a modded player never appeared.
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