Post by rehigg January 12, 2011 (1 of 10)
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Am considering purchasing Pioneer PD-D6-J SACD/CD player.
Description says "Pioneer Elite PD-D6-J is a two-channel player and is compatible with stereo CDs, CD-R/RW, MP3 and WMA compressed audio files. It will also play two-channel SACD discs, but is not equipped to play multichannel SACD programs."
Will it play multichannel hybrid SACDs in 2 channel stereo as a default? If so, any audio compromise.
Thks
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Post by Nagraboy January 12, 2011 (2 of 10)
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rehigg said:
Am considering purchasing Pioneer PD-D6-J SACD/CD player.
Description says "Pioneer Elite PD-D6-J is a two-channel player and is compatible with stereo CDs, CD-R/RW, MP3 and WMA compressed audio files. It will also play two-channel SACD discs, but is not equipped to play multichannel SACD programs."
Will it play multichannel hybrid SACDs in 2 channel stereo as a default? If so, any audio compromise.
Thks
All 2ch-only SACD players play multichannel SACDs.
The multichannel layer and the 2ch layer are on physically separate parts of the disc. The CD layer on a hybrid disc is another separate layer.
There is no compromise as the player accesses the dedicated 2ch layer of a hybrid multichannel disc.
Many 2ch-only players also allow you to play the MCH layer, but you hear it through a downmix created by the player. But there's no need to use that function in my experience.
You have nothing to worry about at all, try to hear one before purchase though.
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Nagraboy said:
All 2ch-only SACD players play multichannel SACDs.
I don't think so but the point is quite moot because there are almost no SACDs that contain multichannel audio but no stereo DSD; mostly the Eloquence series and they're not very good.
> The multichannel layer and the 2ch layer are on physically separate parts of the disc.
They are not. It looks like that in the illustrations (see the FAQ for instance) but that's only because it's more illustrative i.e. easier to explain/understand. In reality, the stereo and multichannel stream are interleaved. The data is entirely separate though so you're fine there.
> There is no compromise as the player accesses the dedicated 2ch layer of a hybrid multichannel disc.
> Many 2ch-only players also allow you to play the MCH layer, but you hear it through a downmix created by the player.
I'm not aware of any player that does. As far as I know, downmixing is not permitted with SACD, at least not recommended, because there's no way for the artist/producer/sound engineer to determine what the downmix would sound like, except by making a dedicated stereo mix. This is one of the things that set SACD apart from DVD-Audio.
See moot point above...
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Post by DSD January 12, 2011 (4 of 10)
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Post by Nagraboy January 12, 2011 (5 of 10)
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The Seventh Taylor said:
I don't think so but the point is quite moot because there are almost no SACDs that contain multichannel audio but no stereo DSD; mostly the Eloquence series and they're not very good.
> The multichannel layer and the 2ch layer are on physically separate parts of the disc.
They are not. It looks like that in the illustrations (see the FAQ for instance) but that's only because it's more illustrative i.e. easier to explain/understand. In reality, the stereo and multichannel stream are interleaved. The data is entirely separate though so you're fine there.
I'm not aware of any player that does. As far as I know, downmixing is not permitted with SACD, at least not recommended, because there's no way for the artist/producer/sound engineer to determine what the downmix would sound like, except by making a dedicated stereo mix. This is one of the things that set SACD apart from DVD-Audio.
See moot point above...
I'd not heard of the Eloquance SACDs, but it's true that the original spec. for SACD required all manufacturers to have at LEAST a 2ch DSD layer, plus the others if they wanted to, but were not legally required to. This was because SACD was supposed to replace Sony's other format - Compact Disc, which is 2ch as we know.
Stereo and multichannel layers are interleaved? The point is that they are physically separate and the 2ch layer is not derived from the MCH layer during disc-reading and playback (unlike some DVD-As). This would make Sony's first rule (above) a contradiction as there would be no MCH track to derive the 2ch content from, even though they later allowed exceptions like the Eloquance SACDs you mention.
The last point you mention in your post about downmixing was a slight error on my part. I meant MCH players usually allow the MCH mix to be heard through the 2ch outputs as a fold-down/downmix. My old Sony XA9000ES MCH player allowed you to select the MCH layer and hear it downmixed through the dedicated stereo outputs. It even used the term downmix in the manual, I think. I would think most universal players with MCH and 2ch outputs would also do this seeing as Sony themselves did it with a flagship player, but I could be wrong!
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Post by rehigg January 13, 2011 (6 of 10)
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Appreciate your info. As a novice I am trying to make an economical purchase decision to upgrade listening pleasure. As a follow up I presently listen to SACD thru my inexpensive Pioneer Universal Player (DVD,CD,SACD,etc)on Polk Audio LSi7 bookself speakers. Am upgrading my receiver to the Pioneer Elite SX A9 J two channel stereo. Will the purchase of a $600-$1000 SACD/CD two channel player make a very noticeable difference in the SACD audio compared to the Pioneer Universal Player?
Thks in advance for your input.
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Post by RWetmore January 13, 2011 (7 of 10)
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rehigg said:
Appreciate your info. As a novice I am trying to make an economical purchase decision to upgrade listening pleasure. As a follow up I presently listen to SACD thru my inexpensive Pioneer Universal Player (DVD,CD,SACD,etc)on Polk Audio LSi7 bookself speakers. Am upgrading my receiver to the Pioneer Elite SX A9 J two channel stereo. Will the purchase of a $600-$1000 SACD/CD two channel player make a very noticeable difference in the SACD audio compared to the Pioneer Universal Player?
Thks in advance for your input.
Which Pioneer universal player is it?
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Post by rehigg January 13, 2011 (8 of 10)
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Pioneer DV48AV purchased new in 2005 for $100. There is a noticeable improvement(to my novice ear) when playing SACD vs.CD. I have a Carver HR 722 receiver that I'm upgrading to Pioneer SX D9 J stereo receiver and adding a Rega RP1 turntable to rediscover vinyl. The final piece would potentially be the SACD/CD upgrade. I understandably don't want to spend upgrade dollars($500-$900) just to spend if the audio improvement will be marginal. If that is the case I would rather wait and spend more upgrade dollars down the road possibly. I do have a sizeable collection of regular CDs and a few SACDs at this point.
Advise welcomed....Rick
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Post by RWetmore January 13, 2011 (9 of 10)
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rehigg said:
Pioneer DV48AV purchased new in 2005 for $100. There is a noticeable improvement(to my novice ear) when playing SACD vs.CD. I have a Carver HR 722 receiver that I'm upgrading to Pioneer SX D9 J stereo receiver and adding a Rega RP1 turntable to rediscover vinyl. The final piece would potentially be the SACD/CD upgrade. I understandably don't want to spend upgrade dollars($500-$900) just to spend if the audio improvement will be marginal. If that is the case I would rather wait and spend more upgrade dollars down the road possibly. I do have a sizeable collection of regular CDs and a few SACDs at this point.
Advise welcomed....Rick
I've never heard the DV48AV, but I would think the upgrade would only be marginal. Hard to really say though.
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Post by yakman January 13, 2011 (10 of 10)
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rehigg said:
Pioneer DV48AV purchased new in 2005 for $100. There is a noticeable improvement(to my novice ear) when playing SACD vs.CD. I have a Carver HR 722 receiver that I'm upgrading to Pioneer SX D9 J stereo receiver and adding a Rega RP1 turntable to rediscover vinyl. The final piece would potentially be the SACD/CD upgrade. I understandably don't want to spend upgrade dollars($500-$900) just to spend if the audio improvement will be marginal. If that is the case I would rather wait and spend more upgrade dollars down the road possibly. I do have a sizeable collection of regular CDs and a few SACDs at this point.
Advise welcomed....Rick
Try both Pioneer D6 and D9, best compare on your current system. Only yourself can judge whether the difference worth the upgrade.
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