Post by armenian December 28, 2010 (21 of 110)
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DSD said:
Total bull from you once again, tubes are vastly superior sonically to transistors! Read this http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm
"Tubes use a charged electron plasma cloud in vacuum, while transistors force audio signal current through something not unlike dirty sand --possibly why 'brittle, hard, sharp, gritty and scratchy' often describe "transistor sound". Whereas rather linear tube circuits are usually simple, most transistor circuits require high negative feedback and more complexity."
The last thing that I would like to do is to get in the middle of SS/Tube debate, if you prefer tube sound then go for it, and the same applies to SS sound.
That said I would like to comment on the “output comparison distortion” shown on the above chart, the SS output distortion shows heavy clipping, almost square wave situation, is this possible? Yes of course, if you drive a B&W speakers with a 50 watts SS amp with the volume fully cranked up that is exactly what you will get, but then any amp driven to clipping produces heavy distortion so what is the point here?
My opinion? Pure BS.
Vahe
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Post by tream December 28, 2010 (22 of 110)
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armenian said:
The last thing that I would like to do is to get in the middle of SS/Tube debate, if you prefer tube sound then go for it, and the same applies to SS sound.
That said I would like to comment on the “output comparison distortion” shown on the above chart, the SS output distortion shows heavy clipping, almost square wave situation, is this possible? Yes of course, if you drive a B&W speakers with a 50 watts SS amp with the volume fully cranked up that is exactly what you will get, but then any amp driven to clipping produces heavy distortion so what is the point here?
My opinion? Pure BS.
Vahe
Guys - please move the tubes vs. SS to the thread that was started on this. I am really serious about the multichannel issues, am looking for real info from the community, and hate to see this thread degenerate into a bunch of off-topic stuff. Is that OK?
Thanks,
Tom
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Post by Zammo December 28, 2010 (23 of 110)
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O.K., so back on topic.
I have been researching this very topic for some time now tream. I have a nice two channel SACD set up, but want a surround set up for HT and surround SACD/other high res formats.
My concern has also been that most surround receivers are designed purely with HT in mind, particularly with regards their propensity to apply DSP to all signals.
I will have an active speaker set up, so have been looking at pre-pros rather than receivers with on board amplification. Candidates have been Integra (DHC 80.2), Arcam (AV888) and Anthem Statement (D2V).
The real dilemma in my mind is whether to send an analogue signal to the pre-pro (assuming your source has multi-channel analogue outs) or to send a digital signal (either bitstream DSD or PCM) via HDMI. Both have their pros and cons.
Despite its significant cost, I am tending towards the Anthem pre-pro. It seems to have the highest focus on high quality audio both in the digital and analogue domains. In particular, I like the "reclocking" function for incoming HDMI signals (somewhat similar to Sony H.A.T.S, but you're not confined to using Sony products) to reduce jitter, a fundamental problem in HDMI's design. I will be able to compare multi-channel analogue in to HDMI in.
It's early days for me, and I've yet to listen to any surround set-ups, but understand your frustration in finding a surround receiver that has audio quality as a priority.
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Post by Asgeir December 28, 2010 (24 of 110)
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Zammo said:
O.K., so back on topic.
I have been researching this very topic for some time now tream. I have a nice two channel SACD set up, but want a surround set up for HT and surround SACD/other high res formats.
Zammo: I have the Sony XA5400ES (SACD) and the DA5400ES reciever from Sony (the one before 6400). It's a great combo, with the HATS for regular CDs, multichannel SACD over HDMI etc. The reciever is quite powerful, but will need a good set of speakers. Mine are Cabasse (French) 5.1 (7.1), a good match I think, sounds just great. Not for all classical music or heavy metal though. Jazz, voices in particular is good. That said, Blu-Ray sound (both music and movie) from Sony's BD-player S5000ES thru the DA5400ES is spectacular. (see 2L.no for music on BD).
You'll get great value for money with Sony, but maybe not the x-factor that comes with lesser names, whatever that is. Note that the Sony-reciever above is NOT made purely with HT in mind, IMO.
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Post by Zammo December 28, 2010 (25 of 110)
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I'm sure the Sony gear sounds great Asgeir, but as my speakers will be active (i.e. have their own dedicated amplifiers), I do not need a HT receiver but a surround sound preamplifier/processor (which has no onboard amplification).
Not looking for x-factor or bling either, just good sound.
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Asgeir said:
Zammo: I have the Sony XA5400ES (SACD) and the DA5400ES reciever from Sony (the one before 6400). It's a great combo, with the HATS for regular CDs, multichannel SACD over HDMI etc. The reciever is quite powerful, but will need a good set of speakers. Mine are Cabasse (French) 5.1 (7.1), a good match I think, sounds just great. Not for all classical music or heavy metal though. Jazz, voices in particular is good. That said, Blu-Ray sound (both music and movie) from Sony's BD-player S5000ES thru the DA5400ES is spectacular. (see 2L.no for music on BD).
You'll get great value for money with Sony, but maybe not the x-factor that comes with lesser names, whatever that is. Note that the Sony-reciever above is NOT made purely with HT in mind, IMO.
Yes the Sony XA5400ES With the DA6400ES is my recommendation to TREAM ( I believe that the DA5400ES US version does not include H.A.T.S.) Although Tream will probably get better sound using his Sim Audio stereo amplifier for the front speakers.. Sony's BDP1000ES/760 also sounds wonderful with virtually same technology as found in the expensive 5000ES . Playdot.Com UK are knocking out the BDPS 760 for only £99 incredible bargain.
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Post by Asgeir December 29, 2010 (27 of 110)
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Zammo said:
Not looking for x-factor or bling either, just good sound.
Talking about x-factors AND good sound, the Sony XA5000ES certainly gives you both.
E.g. I have a Hegel HD10 (DAC, apx US $1200?). Going straight from the player using HMDI or analogue out via the Hegel DAC is more or less the same. A little warmer over HDMI, more "digital" via the Hegel. Sony must be doing something right. Again, for SACDs it's simply superb.
I'm digressing here, but do check out the Hegel DAC.
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Post by tream December 29, 2010 (28 of 110)
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Disbeliever said:
Yes the Sony XA5400ES With the DA6400ES is my recommendation to TREAM ( I believe that the DA5400ES US version does not include H.A.T.S.) Although Tream will probably get better sound using his Sim Audio stereo amplifier for the front speakers.. Sony's BDP1000ES/760 also sounds wonderful with virtually same technology as found in the expensive 5000ES . Playdot.Com UK are knocking out the BDPS 760 for only £99 incredible bargain.
Very interesting and appreciated. The DA6400ES is being sold for a song now in the US - I have one link to a site where it is less than 30% of list, new - boy, the 3D thing must have destroyed the value of an entire generation of AVRs.
So I am curious how to link up the Simaudio with the Sony, so that the I7 runs the stereo pair and the Sony everything else. Does one worry about matching electronics?
Tom
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Post by rammiepie December 29, 2010 (29 of 110)
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Tream, just like speakers, electronics should have the same characteristics power wise (with regards to amps) as a good surround disc sometimes outputs prodigious amounts of info to ALL speakers. With regards to receivers, read the power output specs carefully. As you add more channels from a m/c receiver, the amount of output power diminishes so you want something that will match your existing power amp. Some receivers advertise 170 watts rms per channel.......in Stereo mode but as you utilize the 5.1 or 7.1 capabilities, the output power can be reduced to 50 or 60 watts rms.......I'm sure you can access Sony's spec's on line regarding the piece you are considering.
Another thought, you can probably buy a good used three channel amp that would better match your existing amp and use the Sony as a pre~amp, only....provided you have a powered sub (which is relatively inexpensive, nowadays). Thus you can use the three~channel amp for the front three speakers and your simaudio amp for the rears............just a thought!
Decisions, Decisions.........
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Post by tream December 29, 2010 (30 of 110)
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rammiepie said:
Another thought, you can probably buy a good used three channel amp that would better match your existing amp and use the Sony as a pre~amp, only....provided you have a powered sub (which is relatively inexpensive, nowadays). Thus you can use the three~channel amp for the front three speakers and your simaudio amp for the rears............just a thought!
Decisions, Decisions.........
Hmmm - the only 3 channel one that comes to mind is the Mark Levinson amp....anyone know where a used one can be found (US)?
Tom
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