Post by jdaniel December 11, 2010 (1 of 13)
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I have this "Firebird" on Columbia Lp but it is the whole ballet. Is it really only the Suite in this SACD release? What a pity, as Stravinsky's interpretation is most unique.
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Post by tream December 11, 2010 (2 of 13)
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jdaniel said:
I have this "Firebird" on Columbia Lp but it is the whole ballet. Is it really only the Suite in this SACD release? What a pity, as Stravinsky's interpretation is most unique.
John - nothing like hearing the composer conduct his own work. Even if Stravinsky was considered by many to be an average conductor at best, his recordings have great authority and interest (I do have the complete set on CD, which I am sure is true of many, as well as many of the recordings on LP).
Last week I had the good fortune to attend a performance of one of John Adams' major works, El Nino (the second n with a tilde, of course, which I don't know how to do in this forum) - truly a remarkable event. Adams had his head in the score most of the evening, but the San Francisco Symphony, the orchestra most associated with his work, played magnificently for him. This week, they re-recorded Harmonielehre (the first time was with de Waart in the 80s) with MTT.
I find Firebird Suite to be an equally valid work as the full ballet - while it is interesting to hear how the themes develop in the full ballet, I also at times feel there is some material which really is there to support the dancing and story development, and is therefore bit less interesting musically, and so there are times when I prefer to hear the tauter Suite.
Tom
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Post by jdaniel December 11, 2010 (4 of 13)
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tream said:
Last week I had the good fortune to attend a performance of one of John Adams' major works, El Nino (the second n with a tilde, of course, which I don't know how to do in this forum) - truly a remarkable event. Adams had his head in the score most of the evening, but the San Francisco Symphony, the orchestra most associated with his work, played magnificently for him. This week, they re-recorded Harmonielehre (the first time was with de Waart in the 80s) with MTT.
I find Firebird Suite to be an equally valid work as the full ballet - while it is interesting to hear how the themes develop in the full ballet, I also at times feel there is some material which really is there to support the dancing and story development, and is therefore bit less interesting musically, and so there are times when I prefer to hear the tauter Suite.
Tom
I **can't** wait for the Adams' works on SFS Media! Don't tell anyone, but I humbly believe the SF Symphony and MTT more "suited" to Adams than Mahler.
Harmonielehre with the the SFS Media SACD sound....
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Post by Vaan December 11, 2010 (5 of 13)
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The 1945 Firebird suite is about fifteen minutes longer than than 1919 suite. You can say it is almost the complete ballet. This performance of The Rite of Spring is totally unique. Stravinsky treats it like the ballet music it is and not as a soundtrack for a dinosaur movie.
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Post by tream December 11, 2010 (6 of 13)
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jdaniel said:
Don't tell anyone, but I humbly believe the SF Symphony and MTT more "suited" to Adams than Mahler.
Hmm - care to expand on that a bit? For example, who do you think is well suited to Mahler?
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Post by jdaniel December 11, 2010 (7 of 13)
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tream said:
Hmm - care to expand on that a bit? For example, who do you think is well suited to Mahler?
Oops, forgot my little "IMHO" qualifier! No conductor can be emotionally attuned to all of the symphonies, and no one can get everything "right" within the individual symphonies. My observation about MTT is that he's a little too "expedient," and not that attuned to the darker elements of Mahler's soundworld, And in other cases he's maddeningly mannered with phrasing. IMHO.
And of course for some listeners, maintaining the overall architecture (expedience) is a ultimate thing, (don't ask me what the perfect balance point is), and for others a little local indulgence is "disfiguring." Some symphonies it's not that big a deal for me: the 1st, 4th, 6th, the 6th being the most "classical" (balanced/united) of all his symphonies...unbreakable. But the rest....
For the 2nd, Bernstein's DGG does it for me. The first mov'ts a little wayward, but not too much. But the 5th mov't pulls out all the stops and Bernstein milks them all, and why shouldn't he? Mahler regretted not using the organ earlier but wanted maximum dramatic effect; Bernstein lets it roar like no other.
For the 7th, I'll use the "moonlight music" of the 1st mov't. Compare MTT to say, Sinopoli who make so much more of the extended, tortured posthorn solo.
Or the 4th: take MTT vs Walter who is so much "spookier" in the 2nd movt.
Or the 8th compare MTT to Tennstedt who conjures a sense of rapt, stillness in the final choral entry, for once said stillness isn't broken by the Soprano--Connell's high Bb is as ravishing as it is benign. A silly aside, but I've watched MTT conduct the final chords: his eyes are open....
Or the 9th, compare MTT to Karajan in the material between the trumpet solos in the Rondo/Burlesque: Karajan captures and indulges the lyrical nostalgia and abrupt flashbacks to the trumpet more seamlessly, IMHO.
IMHO....
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Post by jdaniel December 11, 2010 (8 of 13)
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Vaan said:
The 1945 Firebird suite is about fifteen minutes longer than than 1919 suite. You can say it is almost the complete ballet. This performance of The Rite of Spring is totally unique. Stravinsky treats it like the ballet music it is and not as a soundtrack for a dinosaur movie.
Yes! For once Rite sounds as if written by the composer of Petrushka. Love Muti's though, too.
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Post by TerraEpon December 11, 2010 (9 of 13)
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My recording on 1945 conducted by Jarvi runs 30:48, 12 tracks. The original conducted by the composer 43:57, 22 tracks. Certainly very worthwhile to have both (and really, the reason the 1945 was even done was so Stravinsky could retain copyright on the music).
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Post by Johnno December 13, 2010 (10 of 13)
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Vaan said:
The 1945 Firebird suite is about fifteen minutes longer than than 1919 suite. You can say it is almost the complete ballet. This performance of The Rite of Spring is totally unique. Stravinsky treats it like the ballet music it is and not as a soundtrack for a dinosaur movie.
I couldn't agree with you more about this performance of "Le Sacre". Definitive, surely. I also feel that the recorded sound remains stunning in its impact.
I still prefer the complete "Firebird" and the LSO/Dorati will do nicely, thank you.
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