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rammiepie said:
I was joking, Disbeliever! And Pink Floyd is not a person but a group. And obviously, you're not a PF groupie!
Where's your Mojo, man?
Some joke ! I believe Pink Floyd is a person and the group is named after him. correct me if I am wrong. In fact my unreliable Sony STR-DA 5400ES receiver ( now on my third one which has also gone wrong) together with the excellent XA5400ES player was tested by Hi-Fi News with Pink Floyd's The Wall and received a rave review. I stick to the Sony combo as it has I believe the lowest published jitter for HDMI . However I now use the Sony receiver's pre-out into my stereo amplifer for the front speakers and am getting a superb performance when the receiver is working have complained to Sony & am awaiting a reply.
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rammiepie said:
Fitz, here YOU go again....ignoring literally HALF my post (regarding OPPO vs. Playback Design, Meridian vs. Onkyo and EVERYTHING else in between...you are a poster child for ADS (attention deficit syndrome).
IMO, you're the one who desperately needs to become more centered!
tsk, tsk, tsk.
Maybe half of what you posted was irrelevant to the point he wanted to make.
You are verging on thin ice above with your personal attacks. Keep it to the subject matter or go home sir. Calling one another names or imputing ill to their mother's lineage (or what ever other device you may wish to employ to insult) has long ago become rather less than a source of amusement. It credits you ill.
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Post by rammiepie December 5, 2010 (233 of 371)
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Windsurfer said:
tsk, tsk, tsk.
Maybe half of what you posted was irrelevant to the point he wanted to make.
You are verging on thin ice above with your personal attacks. Keep it to the subject matter or go home sir. Calling one another names or imputing ill to their mother's lineage (or what ever other device you may wish to employ to insult) has long ago become rather less than a source of amusement. It credits you ill.
Sir, I AM HOME and "imputing ill to their mother's lineage....." what SIR, are YOU talking about? Fitz and I are online sparring partners and there is absolutely no malice on either one of our parts....audio banter and nothing more. We both agree to disagree on the use of a center channel.......Has anyone ever told Fitz that his center channel is wired out of phase...........
And Windsurfer, aren't you the one with the mismatched speakers and amps crowing about how wonderful your system sounds? Sir, get thee to a nunnery, fortissimo!
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Post by rammiepie December 5, 2010 (234 of 371)
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Disbeliever said:
Some joke ! I believe Pink Floyd is a person and the group is named after him. correct me if I am wrong. In fact my unreliable Sony STR-DA 5400ES receiver ( now on my third one which has also gone wrong) together with the excellent XA5400ES player was tested by Hi-Fi News with Pink Floyd's The Wall and received a rave review. I stick to the Sony combo as it has I believe the lowest published jitter for HDMI . However I now use the Sony receiver's pre-out into my stereo amplifer for the front speakers and am getting a superb performance when the receiver is working have complained to Sony & am awaiting a reply.
Pink was a character in the PF movie version of the Wall...the protagonist......sorry to hear you're experiencing problems with your Sony (I'm never had luck with Sony).
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Post by Ian S December 5, 2010 (235 of 371)
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I just looked up ITU and found http://www.timefordvd.com/ref/dts.shtml
The interesting thing is that a specific statement is made to define 4.0.
So for the purpose of clarity, by their definition, for TV and Film, I'm NOT using 4.0 or 4.1. I using 5.1 with the centre channel switched off in the AV preamp. Which by what they are saying, spreads the mono centre information over the front side pair of speakers.
http://www.timefordvd.com/ref/ITU.shtml
The obvious problem with adhering exactly to the advocated layout is that of room width and size. The rear speakers are wider apart than the front ones as well as 20° back from the listener.
You need either a vast room or the front speakers and listening position huddled together.
My very good main front speakers are wide baffled, about 16 inches, and 43 inches tall, so to get the stereo image from those I need to be a fair way back from them. The point of them is to make clean bass down to the subsonics, ie, proper full range monitors. So that rules out the ITU standard for my 17ft x 13ft room. Unless I change down to much less bass capable small speakers that image well from close up and huddle the chair and fronts, and even then I'd have to fit the rears near the back wall which would probably colour their sound.
I conclude the ITU standard is mainly reserved for the very wealthy few who can afford a vast room for their own listening indulgence, in may cases well away from their wife and realistically, detached from the rest of the home as their wife will still be within ear shot of the annoying permeating bass.
The rest of Hi-Fi humanity who use full range speakers would have to make do with stereo.
It appears that for AV, Dolby labs specify a different layout.
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Post by diw December 5, 2010 (236 of 371)
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There is no doubt that an ITU configuration is difficult. Although in my ordinary living room, I once had 5 B&W 805N speakers in the exact ITU position. I should mention it required orientation of the front speakers along the long wall of the rectangle, which most do not consider optimal positioning acoustically.
Since I now have larger speakers, that is no longer practical.
With conversion to PCM, you can adjust speaker position more easily, so although I still have angles between the speakers that are close to the ITU standard, I no longer require the speakers to be equidistant from the listener.
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rammiepie said:
Fitz, here YOU go again....ignoring literally HALF my post (regarding OPPO vs. Playback Design, Meridian vs. Onkyo and EVERYTHING else in between...you are a poster child for ADS (attention deficit syndrome).
That's right evade. Change the subject. Enjoy your life of denial. De Nile be de longest river. The center channel issue completely transcends equipment issues. What the experts have said here is just as true on an Oppo or on a Playback Designs or anything else.
Sure, there are many, but very few these days by comparison, Mch releases in quad (except re-issues), where the topic is moot. But for the best of the best - the Channels, Pentatones (new releases), BISs, Tudors, Telarcs, Harmonia Mundis, and on and on - it makes a rather huge difference. None of these commpanies are compelled to use 5 channels in ITU; they could choose to use 4, like Isomike. They only do it because they know it sounds better to discriminating audiences.
We have all heard the difference on multiple systems. You don't even want to try it, and that is your undeniable right. But, if you have not heard it, why make a spectacle of yourself with your irrational denials based on zero experience?
I make and I have never made any statement to the effect that my equipment is better than yours, nor will I ever. How could I? I have never heard yours, nor you mine, for that matter. All of which is totally irrelevant to the center channel issue, which is what sets you off on a mindless tangent of alarming proportions.
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rammiepie said:
You seem to be flip flopping on your previous post that just any old center channel will NOT suffice and that a mismatched center could do more harm than good.
And you're beginning to sound like Mr. Hirsch from the Hirsch/Houck laboratories who asserted that ALL amps sound the same.........sical!
OK. Let me clarify:
1. I always presume for the sake of arguments that the center is equal in quality to the rest of the speakers and set up correctly in relation to them and to the listener. Yes, a mismatched and/or misplaced center can be worse than none at all.
2. I am definitely not denying the quality differences among components but that is tangential to the issue of center vs. no center. It is always a good idea to limit comparisons to one variable at a time. So, again, the issue of center vs. no center should only be considered in the context of a given (and not variable) level of component quality.
Kal
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Post by Ian S December 5, 2010 (239 of 371)
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Disbeliever said:
I believe Pink Floyd is a person and the group is named after him. correct me if I am wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd
....1963/64...the band was first referred to as "The Pink Floyd Sound", created by Barrett on the spur of the moment when he discovered that another band, also named The Tea Set, were to perform at one of their gigs. (The name is derived from the given names of two blues musicians whose records Barrett had in his collection, Pink Anderson and Floyd Council.)
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