|
|
|
Kal Rubinson said:
PD is not offering a 5.1 setup. Their surround option is to stack a pair and use them as 4.0. Too bad.
Hi Kal, This has nothing to do with your post,. I note with interest your review of the brilliant B & W 800 diamond May Stereophile and I feel the word brilliant is used in totally wrong context. In fact like the CM8 CM9 & the 804D which I have auditioned all sound too brilliant or bright .. As you say the diamond tweeter is too revealing and I feel that if all these speakers are used at realistic listening levels ,listening fatigue will be the inevitable result. Paul Messenger has reviewed the CM8 and he says the sound becomes agressive when the volume is turned up and I completely agree, these three speakers despite the 804 D have very expensive diamond tweeters all sound fairly similar apart from the bass. JA says Overall the B& W 800 diamond's measured performance suggestss thats its balance has been optimised by listening ; I feel the listening was done in a room that is far too damped. These speakers IMO should not be purchased without first having a home dem to see if they suit ones listening room. So far I can not find any UK reviews for the latest B& W diamond range ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gerald, haven't you ever heard of the old adage: "Diamonds Are An Audiophile's Best Friends." Listening fatigue will not set in, I assure you, as Kal is using the Meridian 861 v.6 utilizing Meridian's superb room correction system.
Is it the utter "expensiveness" of it all that makes you delirious or the very fact that Kal has a pretty matched 5.1 state of the art sound system........
Well, I'm sure if Kal does develop listening fatigue, he will take the red eye to England and put his tired head on your pillow!
Sweet Dreams and a Saucerful of Secrets,
Ralph
|
|
|
|
|
|
rammiepie said:
Gerald, haven't you ever heard of the old adage: "Diamonds Are An Audiophile's Best Friends." Listening fatigue will not set in, I assure you, as Kal is using the Meridian 861 v.6 utilizing Meridian's superb room correction system.
Is it the utter "expensiveness" of it all that makes you delirious or the very fact that Kal has a pretty matched 5.1 state of the art sound system........
Well, I'm sure if Kal does develop listening fatigue, he will take the red eye to England and put his tired head on your pillow!
Sweet Dreams and a Saucerful of Secrets,
Ralph
Ralph I was expecting a reply from Kal as I have to assume you have not auditioned any of these B & W speakers, anyway you have got it wrong "Diamonds are a girl's best friend" they do not lose their shape etc. not necessarily an audiophiles best friend, too sharp, price of the B & W's ! they appear to be good value including the 804D , but should not require an expensive over the top DSP room correction system that considerably alters their balance ,both the CM8 & CM9's are slightly too bright and a slightly thinner sound than I am used to seem to be best for HT with centre channel speaker to fill in the sound. My listening room is fully carpeted with heavy drapes & soft upholstered furniture plus carpet on hard reflective wall at the rear.. I have auditioned the 804D in a dealers dem room but find the diamonds have a very revealing treble as mentioned by Kal as a fault yet he says simply a pleasure to listen to ,it seems his good review of the speakers is too dependant upon DSP.
Gerald
|
|
|
|
|
|
Disbeliever said:
JA says Overall the B& W 800 diamond's measured performance suggestss thats its balance has been optimised by listening ; I feel the listening was done in a room that is far too damped. These speakers IMO should not be purchased without first having a home dem to see if they suit ones listening room.
That is good general advice but, unfortunately, few can do that, especially when it involves several hundred pounds of speaker. If one does this in a good room, I believe that the B&Ws will not need any defense from me.
But, my room is not over-damped. All the treatments are on one end, behind the speakers, and they are mostly bass traps in the front corners. All the walls, ceiling and floor are reinforced concrete and the side walls are completely untreated! The only absorbers out in the room are the couch I sit on and an Oriental carpet. One thing that I will point out is that the listening position is about 13feet from the wall behind and is quite free from back wall reflections above the bass. This is a big factor in getting a smooth response at the MLP.
In fact, when Michael Kelly delivered and setup up his new speakers for me last week, he remarked that he didn't "hear the room" at all. Now, you can sit on the floor under the dining room table where you will be in a mode and experience bloated bass and muffled treble.
Kal
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kal Rubinson said:
That is good general advice but, unfortunately, few can do that, especially when it involves several hundred pounds of speaker. If one does this in a good room, I believe that the B&Ws will not need any defense from me.
But, my room is not over-damped. All the treatments are on one end, behind the speakers, and they are mostly bass traps in the front corners. All the walls, ceiling and floor are reinforced concrete and the side walls are completely untreated! The only absorbers out in the room are the couch I sit on and an Oriental carpet. One thing that I will point out is that the listening position is about 13feet from the wall behind and is quite free from back wall reflections above the bass. This is a big factor in getting a smooth response at the MLP.
In fact, when Michael Kelly delivered and setup up his new speakers for me last week, he remarked that he didn't "hear the room" at all. Now, you can sit on the floor under the dining room table where you will be in a mode and experience bloated bass and muffled treble.
Kal
Kal please note that I am not referring to your room but to B & W's listening room which must be over-damped if they can release speakers that are too prominent in the top response and become annoying to listen to when the volume is increased as confirmed by Paul Messenger for the CM8's You say that Michael Kelly remarked that he did,nt hear your room at all. I have to assume that this is only because of your Meridian EQ DSP setup ? I have also managed not to hear my room without any EQ ,perhaps I am lucky with my particular room fully carpeted etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gerald, I have 2 sets of B&W 802 Nautilus speakers and the CM1 satellite B@W speakers and B@W subwoofer in my bedroom.
One set of the Nautilus speakers are my rears in my main system (with the Genesis in the front w/ 2 bass modules (2000 watts) and the other set in my Summer home as my mains with smaller B@Ws in the rear and a B@W center channel.
They are very accurate speakers.
So, I believe Kal knows what he's doing!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Disbeliever said:
Kal please note that I am not referring to your room but to B & W's listening room which must be over-damped if they can release speakers that are too prominent in the top response and become annoying to listen to when the volume is increased as confirmed by Paul Messenger for the CM8's You say that Michael Kelly remarked that he did,nt hear your room at all. I have to assume that this is only because of your Meridian EQ DSP setup ? I have also managed not to hear my room without any EQ ,perhaps I am lucky with my particular room fully carpeted etc.
If their room(s) are overdamped leading to the production of speakers with prominent HF, surely that would be heard in other rooms with all their speakers. I do not question PM's observation drawn from listening to the CM8s in his room but they are hardly relevant to observations drawn from listening to 800Diamonds in my room. Since Meridian RC is limited to the range below 250Hz, it would not be a factor, especially since I have not yet had the time to run it for either speaker. (I try to review speakers without MRC even though I prefer it for my own long term use.)
Kal
|
|
|
Post by Alan May 24, 2011 (78 of 199)
|
|
Disbeliever said:
I have auditioned the 804D in a dealers dem room but find the diamonds have a very revealing treble...
Gerald
Do you mean the new 804 Diamond? The 804 model from the previous incarnation of the 800 series was named the 804S, which had an aluminum tweeter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alan said:
Do you mean the new 804 Diamond? The 804 model from the previous incarnation of the 800 series was named the 804S, which had an aluminum tweeter.
Alan , Yes the new 804 Diamond, their nomenclature is confusing . Kal states unequivocally in his current B & W 800 diamond review , re earlier B& W 802D's I've adapted to their slight emphasis of the high frequencies , and their upper bass ripeness.then 802D seemed to have a slight built -in "loudness compensation" that tipped up both the upper-bass and mid treble, while this was warmly pleasant at normal listening levels, at much higher levels it sounded somewhat overwhelming. Then more relevant to the current reviewed speakers, If there was any "fault" to be found in the 800 Diamond, it was the "revealing treble" of that diamond tweeter, (which I find to be on the sharp side) . So as the "fault" of the diamond tweeter is that it is revealing (apparently too revealing) how can overall the B&W's 800 Diamond be "Simply a Pleasure to listen to" according to Stereophile ? they certainly are not a pleasure to look at.I was contemplating buying a pair of B& W 804 diamond speakers but am put off by the "fault" (Kals word) of the diamond tweeter. So because of what PM found in his review of the CM8's which are on the bright side ,this leads me to think that B& W's listening room/s must be over damped . I am currently using pair of B & W CM9's which have a better bass than the CM8's but are are the bright side at realistic listening levels just like the CM8's which I have sold on. B & W speakers have similar house sound Paul Messengers review of B& W 802 diamond says they lack warmth & sound thin, same as I find the CM8 & CM9
Gerald
|
|
|
|
|
|
rammiepie said:
Gerald, I have 2 sets of B&W 802 Nautilus speakers and the CM1 satellite B@W speakers and B@W subwoofer in my bedroom.
One set of the Nautilus speakers are my rears in my main system (with the Genesis in the front w/ 2 bass modules (2000 watts) and the other set in my Summer home as my mains with smaller B@Ws in the rear and a B@W center channel.
They are very accurate speakers.
So, I believe Kal knows what he's doing!
Ralph, How on earth do you manage to sleep with all that B & W gear in your bedroom, I guess it must be the listening fatigue that sends you off to your dreams. So far I find B& W speakers not very accurate too bright too thin lack warmth as stated by Paul Messenger US seems to be their biggest market helped by you.
|
|
