Post by mdt March 25, 2005 (11 of 56)
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onebit said:
For example, my favorite record dealer hasn't even heard any of the new formats, and thus cannot comment on the products to his customers. I doubt that he has even heard a proper 5.1 Dolby surround setup. Maybe he should come over and hear what the fuss is about. It's hard to build enthusiasm for a product without knowing what you are selling.
The same was the case with my favourite record dealer. I simply invited two of the sales people to my home and demonstrated SA-CD to them. They both loved it, they merely hadn't known what it was about. Since then they are taking all new SA-CDs into their assortement. They informed the other sales people about it and even asked me to write something about the format in the retailers customer-magazine.
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onebit said:
For example, my favorite record dealer hasn't even heard any of the new formats, and thus cannot comment on the products to his customers. I doubt that he has even heard a proper 5.1 Dolby surround setup. Maybe he should come over and hear what the fuss is about. It's hard to build enthusiasm for a product without knowing what you are selling.
Virgin Megastore Dubai City Center, UAE. A shopgirl when asked about SACD selection: "They all are just super, nothing to worry about". A boy assured: "We have none". Dubai Duty Free: "SACD? What's this? A CD title?"
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I think people *will* and *are* getting it, at least in the Classical world. The Gramophone this month had mention of SACD throughout the mag, in both adverts and articles.
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Post by Dan Popp March 25, 2005 (14 of 56)
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mdt said:
I'm the last one to put money in the forefront (you seem to have forgotten what i wrote about the ART of recording on an other thread). But the people that DECIDE on the future of SA-CD, are those sitting in on the boards of the big companys, and THEY make their decisions by looking at sales figures and not by listening to whow it sounds (they probably give a d... about that)
m,
There was no slam intended, nor any forgetfulness on my part. Perhaps you took my "Amen" as sarcastic, but it was sincere. You are right that business owners are in business to make money and that many (though perhaps not all) of them are less concerned about the quality of the product than you and me. In another sense, though, we are the ones who decide whether a format is viable or not. Red ink year after year is an indicator to a business that its product is not wanted; and why should a company make a product that few people want? That would just take resources away from products that people do want.
Too many people find easy scapegoats in CEOs and 'big business' in general. The free market determines that the best uses are made of limited resources. There is no reason to blame corporate greed for giving people what they are willing to pay for, and only that.
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Post by mdt March 25, 2005 (15 of 56)
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Dan Popp said:
m,
There was no slam intended, nor any forgetfulness on my part. Perhaps you took my "Amen" as sarcastic, but it was sincere. You are right that business owners are in business to make money and that many (though perhaps not all) of them are less concerned about the quality of the product than you and me. In another sense, though, we are the ones who decide whether a format is viable or not. Red ink year after year is an indicator to a business that its product is not wanted; and why should a company make a product that few people want? That would just take resources away from products that people do want.
Too many people find easy scapegoats in CEOs and 'big business' in general. The free market determines that the best uses are made of limited resources. There is no reason to blame corporate greed for giving people what they are willing to pay for, and only that.
Seems to me, that what you are saying ends up in the same advice that i gave: simply continue buying SA-CDs and show the industry that there is demand.
About "a product that few people want": how can people want something if they dont know it exists?!
I dont know how many potential buyers SA-CD has, but i am sure that if people wer informed about it in the right way,namely as a medium very beneficial to the pure enjoyment of music (and not a way out technology for hifi freaks)there would be many more interested in it than now.(the record store employees i mentioned in my post werent interested either, before they got to know, and above all hear, what high resolution is about)
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Post by mdt March 25, 2005 (16 of 56)
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Dan Popp said:
Too many people find easy scapegoats in CEOs and 'big business' in general. The free market determines that the best uses are made of limited resources. There is no reason to blame corporate greed for giving people what they are willing to pay for, and only that.
If CEOs are only poor scapegoats, what do you say about a manager taking a 20 million settlement on leaving a company whose downfall he accompanied, while at the same time thousands loose their jobs and others are being forced to accept salary reductions by that same company !
Or health insurance companies making hughe gains, thanks to politcal decisions intended to lower costs in the public health system, and then still refusing to lower the premium for the insured.
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jojopuppyfish said:
I've gotten tired of people complaining about the demise of SACD while sitting back and doing nothing.
So I created a petition. If enough people sign it, I will pass it along to all of the music label heads.
Sign AWAY!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/SACD/petition.html
jojopuppyfish,
I would like to sign this petition but http://www.PetitionOnline.com/SACD/petition.html returns this message:
This petition was removed because the author did not provide a full valid name. Anonymous petitions are not permitted. Authors are given three days to respond with their name before a petition is removed. If you are the author of this petition reply to the email we sent you with your full name. If you are the author and do not have the email we sent you, send an email to support@petitiononline.com asking us to reactivate your petition. Be sure to include your full name and petition ID in the email.
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Post by nickc March 27, 2005 (18 of 56)
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Dan Popp said:
m,
There was no slam intended, nor any forgetfulness on my part. Perhaps you took my "Amen" as sarcastic, but it was sincere. You are right that business owners are in business to make money and that many (though perhaps not all) of them are less concerned about the quality of the product than you and me. In another sense, though, we are the ones who decide whether a format is viable or not. Red ink year after year is an indicator to a business that its product is not wanted; and why should a company make a product that few people want? That would just take resources away from products that people do want.
Too many people find easy scapegoats in CEOs and 'big business' in general. The free market determines that the best uses are made of limited resources. There is no reason to blame corporate greed for giving people what they are willing to pay for, and only that.
I agree Dan that the free market ultimately decides what will succeed or fail. But I also think in the classical music field (maybe also in jazz with Chesky etc. though I'm no expert there!) we have small companies and owners - Channel Classics (Jared Sacks), Hyperion (Simon Perry), BIS (Robert Bahr) and others - who really put a premium on sound quality.
Now if their SACDs cost a fortune to produce and do not sell well they would have to look at the viability of producing them of course. But I think because their focus is on "the music" they will give themselves more leeway (and maybe settle for smaller profits eg. I could never see DG starting a complete series of Faure songs like Hyperion, though I don't think we'll ever see this series on SACD)than a large multinational whose accountants ask "Bach? Isn't that what dogs do?" Rather like classical musicians really - you don't become a violist thinking you'll be driving a Ferrari in a few years. You generally get into classical for love - though if push comes to shove love won't pay the mortgage!
Cheers
Nick
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Post by Dan Popp March 28, 2005 (19 of 56)
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mdt wrote:
"Seems to me, that what you are saying ends up in the same advice that i gave: simply continue buying SA-CDs and show the industry that there is demand."
Yes.
"About "a product that few people want": how can people want something if they dont know it exists?!"
True. Obviously a LOT of advertising money should be spent. But when that happens, there is a cry, "look at all they money they are throwing away on advertising! - They should be improving their quality (or broadening their catalog) with that money!!!" The armchair quarterback always wins.
m, as to your other comments I don't want to stray too far off topic. As a general remark, it seems to me that there is plenty of greed to go around - by the consumer, the retailer, the corporation, the government - but somehow the rich guys in suits are often cast as the villain, with everyone else in the role of victim. I just don't think that's an open-eyed assessment of the situation.
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Alexandre said:
jojopuppyfish,
I would like to sign this petition but http://www.PetitionOnline.com/SACD/petition.html returns this message:
This petition was removed because the author did not provide a full valid name. Anonymous petitions are not permitted. Authors are given three days to respond with their name before a petition is removed. If you are the author of this petition reply to the email we sent you with your full name. If you are the author and do not have the email we sent you, send an email to support@petitiononline.com asking us to reactivate your petition. Be sure to include your full name and petition ID in the email.
I wrote them an email on Sat and Today to get it back up. I am still waiting for a response.
-Brett
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