Post by Oakland December 27, 2010 (41 of 98)
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flyingdutchman said:
I've never read where Telarc says BEWARE of home theater receivers with DSPs. Seeing as most of their records are regular old RBCDs, I find it hard to believe. Can you point that out where you've seen it?
I, too, have seen Telarc's liner note admonishment pertaining to using receivers with DSP that don't have an analog bypass. Some claim that such receivers have no ill effect on the sound while others claim that the degragation is audible.....par for the course among audiophiles. I have no vote as I don't employ a DSP receiver.
Robert C. Lang
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Oakland said:
I, too, have seen Telarc's liner note admonishment pertaining to using receivers with DSP that don't have an analog bypass. Some claim that such receivers have no ill effect on the sound while others claim that the degragation is audible.....par for the course among audiophiles. I have no vote as I don't employ a DSP receiver.
Robert C. Lang
I wonder about that quote although I do not doubt it. What I suspect is that it dates from an early time when most surround receivers were DPL/DD/dts (DSP) only and it was important to advise SACD users to find something that would send the MCH SACD signals through, as opposed to massaging the stereo tracks.
All too often, public statements are, in an effort to reach the technically unsophisticated, simplified to the point that the literal interpretation can be misleading.
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Post by domic December 28, 2010 (43 of 98)
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Iain said:
Have you also applied latest firmware to BDP as well?
As example, I've had my Sony BDP-S770 for three weeks and have upgraded firmware twice. It came with original firmware so I upgraded to September 2010 release. Then a few days later a new release came out; installed that.
I did, and I have never tried it with an older one, as it was the first thing I did before even insert a disc. So I have in fact never tried it with the original Sony firmware.
Recap:
Sony BDP-S370 connected to Yamaha RX-V3800 via HDMI.
Newest firmware both sides (Sony very recent, Yamaha 02/2009).
DSD over HDMI works with 2 channels. Yamaha never receives 5 channels, even with SACD MCH layer selected (remains always stereo, i.e. the front channels only). When I let the Sony transcode the DSD to PCM, Yamaha receives all 5 channels (but in 44.1 16 bit PCM :-( ).
Did anybody had success with a new Sony connected to an 2007/2008 Yamaha? Newer Yamaha? What ist working? Any other negative experiences like mine?
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Oakland said:
I, too, have seen Telarc's liner note admonishment pertaining to using receivers with DSP that don't have an analog bypass. Some claim that such receivers have no ill effect on the sound while others claim that the degragation is audible.....par for the course among audiophiles. I have no vote as I don't employ a DSP receiver.
Robert C. Lang
Yes, there were also liner notes in early Telarc releases strongly suggesting 5 identical, equidistant speakers in ITU mode for Mch. But, technology has made that suggestion obsolete and unnecessary, as I suspect Teresa's current dictum is.
Frankly, I do not care what Telarc says, or once said, actually, since they are out of business anyway. The truth, as always, is in the listening. I have heard exactly one truly excellent pure DSD system - tailspn's - and I have heard several others others that were not so hot. The owners of those pure DSD systems were easily convinced to upgrade and modernize upon hearing one that did convert to PCM for DSP processing.
My own system will go either way, and I overwhelmingly prefer it operating with a conversion to PCM, because that enables very significant features to be used. The truth is there are a host of other factors involved in the component choices and operating modes one uses that are far more significant than DSD vs. PCM. That's what my ears tell me on a variety of systems. Of course, Teresa is always a proponent of the one true way - her way - as revealed on only her own system.
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Post by domic December 28, 2010 (45 of 98)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
...
My own system will go either way, and I overwhelmingly prefer it operating with a conversion to PCM, because that enables very significant features to be used.
...
Sorry to interrupt: your discussion is now in considerable distance to the original thread. Wouldn't it be better to give it a new home (i.e. thread)? Otherwise I feel displaced with my question which really does have something to do with Sony Blue Ray SACD capability. Of course I am also trying to get direct DSD to analog from my system, for all 5 channels... But it is perhaps a problem for both discussions when using this thread in mulitplex.
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Post by case December 28, 2010 (46 of 98)
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domic said:
I did, and I have never tried it with an older one, as it was the first thing I did before even insert a disc. So I have in fact never tried it with the original Sony firmware.
Recap:
Sony BDP-S370 connected to Yamaha RX-V3800 via HDMI.
Newest firmware both sides (Sony very recent, Yamaha 02/2009).
DSD over HDMI works with 2 channels. Yamaha never receives 5 channels, even with SACD MCH layer selected (remains always stereo, i.e. the front channels only). When I let the Sony transcode the DSD to PCM, Yamaha receives all 5 channels (but in 44.1 16 bit PCM :-( ).
Did anybody had success with a new Sony connected to an 2007/2008 Yamaha? Newer Yamaha? What ist working? Any other negative experiences like mine?
Hi, I had the same problem with my Sony BDP-S370 and Yamaha RX-665, but when I changed "Output Video format" to HDMI, IT WORKED. I got MCH SACD output from the Yamaha.
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case said:
Hi, I had the same problem with my Sony BDP-S370 and Yamaha RX-665, but when I changed "Output Video format" to HDMI, IT WORKED. I got MCH SACD output from the Yamaha.
Aha! Another issue is that the video HDMI output has to be set for at least 720p with many players.
Kal
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Post by Oakland December 28, 2010 (48 of 98)
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Kal Rubinson said:
I wonder about that quote although I do not doubt it. What I suspect is that it dates from an early time when most surround receivers were DPL/DD/dts (DSP) only and it was important to advise SACD users to find something that would send the MCH SACD signals through, as opposed to massaging the stereo tracks.
Yes, you are correct Telarc's advisory dates from an early time. A quick search through my discs found Telarc's advisory in liner notes dating from 2002 and 2003. Telarc dropped the caution after that time long before 95% of us (my guess) discovered SACD multi-channel.
Telarc made no mention of a concern of receivers massaging the stereo tracks but was very explicit about the concern of receivers of the day converting DSD to CD resolution 44.1 kHz sampling, that theoretically, would reduce DSD to Redbook level. As Fitzcaraldo points out technology has rendered this concern (and other concerns related to MC playback) obsolete. And to Telarc's credit they dropped the receiver caution in about 2004, probably when receivers were more commonly converting to higher than CD resolution.
In hindsight the Telarc caution about even those early receivers was probably overkill. I think we have learned that the vast majority of people, certainly the buying public, either can't tell the difference between Redbook and DSD (two-channel) or don't care. From my point of view it's the "multi-channel stupid" that accounts for the vast superiority of SACD (multi-channel) over CD.
Robert C. Lang
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Post by domic December 29, 2010 (49 of 98)
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case said:
Hi, I had the same problem with my Sony BDP-S370 and Yamaha RX-665, but when I changed "Output Video format" to HDMI, IT WORKED. I got MCH SACD output from the Yamaha.
Kal said:
Aha! Another issue is that the video HDMI output has to be set for at least 720p with many players.
Kal
Thank you all. I cannot try it now but I will as soon as a am home in January.
Domagoj
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Post by domic January 3, 2011 (50 of 98)
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I tried it now: switching video to 720p either component or HDMI works for me! All 5 SACD channels as DSD. However, the solution will not be completely satisfactory until I buy a new TV. For my old CRT I have to switch back and fort every time I watch a video disc or Internet TV, else I get a B/W picture from video out (it works anyway, might have been worse). I talked to SONY support. They do dot feel as if it was a fault of the device but as if I had very exotic expectations towards my player.
Another thing:
Did anybody notice the following problem: When I play SACD, the built in display does not display the track number! The place after "T" remains empty followed by the current track time. No track number after "T" when playing SACD, with CD or CD-layer of a hybrid SACD everything is fine. After inserting SACD, the total number of track is displayed after "T", followed by the total time. While playing, no track number.
I have a 470, what about 570 or 770?
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