Post by rammiepie September 9, 2010 (131 of 152)
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As I stated already, methinks that Universal/Japan's entrance in the SHM~SACD leaves A LOT TO BE DESIRED.....
They've re~pressed many titles which as you stated already sounded great in their American counterparts (and Gaucho was multi~channel).
I look forward to AP's upcoming Verve reissues and Ella Fitzgerald's classic (and fantastic sounding) Clap Your Hands, Here Comes Charlie.....both sensibly priced and one can be sure utilizing the Grimm Converter from the original mastertapes will sound anything but Grim!
Happy listening!
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Post by mcintosh September 9, 2010 (132 of 152)
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sordidman:
I just finished listening to Aja for the third time. I wanted to concentrate on all of its qualities and try to find something that wasn’t right.
From what I just heard, if it wasn’t for recording compression, if I added bit of imagination, I was close to being at the live event without an audience. If you’ve never been to a live concert hall, not your local state civic center outhouse, but a hall designed and built for music, you should make it one of your life’s important priorities. Every audiophile has to have a reference of what real music sounds like.
You complained about poor sound staging; this is definitely not the case with this Aja SHM-SACD. I heard plenty of concert hall ambience or echoing off of the virtual walls. Depth of music content that went beyond the rear of my speakers, and way beyond the wall behind them. The sound stage did not expand incredibly wider than the speakers but it was not in any way constrained.
I understand what you mean by pace from your latest post. That just ties into what you’re calling an overly smooth presentation. The leading and trailing edge of every note was as accurate as I believe it should be. I don’t know of any other way to describe it. I’ve seen Steely Dan in concert; I know their music and what it should sound like.
You made reference to Elton John. I have the SACDs of Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboys, Yellow Brick Road, Madman Across The Water. I read somewhere that Captain Fantastic was recorded with very little compression. This is probably the best SACD I have. It’s a rock recording the way it was meant to be. I wouldn’t call the recording bright by any definition. The drums and the bass are phenomenal. This is what a recording should sound like before the heavy hand of compression removes much of the reality.
Aja SHM-SACD cannot compare to SACD Captain Fantastic by any stretch of the imagination. There was nothing wrong with the music. It sounded the best I’ve ever heard it. But, and that’s a BIG but; that’s from my point of view.
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Post by sordidman September 9, 2010 (133 of 152)
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Yeah,
I hear you, and understand what you hear. Not there with you, and I don't have your system.
SO, would never question that what you hear is what you hear. But, you are also not comparing it directly to the SHM redbook, - or the soundstaging on the Gaucho SACD, etc.
FWIW, - I am a co-songwriter/lead instrument player for Sordid Humor. I either produced or co-produced all of our recordings, and worked with the Counting Crows, - whose lead singer was our backup singer for a number of years. I have played more than a few small to large venues in the West Coast, and USA, and also attend and attended many shows regularly.
Also, with Merlin VSMmxe speakers, Blue Circle BC204, and APLHiFi AKM multiple stacked Universal player, I have (don't take my word for it), a stellar system. I am reluctant to say that the Denon based APL is superior to Meitner, (which is a standard, if not the standard), but others will assert such, passionately.
At the end of the day, - it matters not really. Both discs are an improvement over the 1984 redbook and that's probably worth it to any Steely Dan fan.
IMO however, the SHM redbook SACD doesn't have the realistic instrument tonality of the Hi-Rez SHM SACD, - but it beats it in other areas, - as mentioned. I was hoping, (in my system), that the SHM-SACD would get closer to the Gaucho SACD and better the redbook SHM CD in more areas than just higher resolution: this did not happen, - not only for me, - but for the other people who have compared them. And, these are the same people who have had bands ruined for them by hearing them like they've never heard them before on my system, and then going home and being disappointed.
Apologies if it seems like I'm bragging about my system: which is not my intention: this is all subjective stuff, and my system could be better, it's better than some, worse than others... it's all good...
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Post by mcintosh September 9, 2010 (134 of 152)
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Very impressive resume!
We may have a common reference. You have Elton John SACDs; which ones? Captain Fantastic is the best one I have compared to Madman and Yellow Brick Road which are slightly inferior.
If you have Captain Fantastic; how does it compare to your Aja SHM CD? if you say it's equivalent then I'm going to start bitching!! As I stated in my previous post, Aja SHM-SACD can't compare to Captain Fantastic.
Also I'm not familiar with the Denon APL SACD player. From my research the Meitner CDSA-SE arguably was the standard until about a year ago when Meitner came out with the XDS1. The XDS1 is now considered the one and only at the top.
Anyway rate your Aja SHM CD against Captain Fantastic SACD if you have it. or any of the other two as specified above by Elton.
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Post by sordidman September 9, 2010 (135 of 152)
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Hiya,
I'm sorry, - bummer, - don't have the Captain Fantastic, - you make me want to go get it now. I'll look for it. I have Madmen and GBYBR on SACD.
I wouldn't say that either is stellar compared to others, - but I do believe that they are not untrue to what I remember the vinyl sounding like, and the resolution, soundstaging, is pretty good.
Yeah, I'm familiar with many iterations of Ed Meitner's players, I've been a fan for a long time. The APL has garnered industry wide praise for either surpassing or equaling the Meitner. I have a couple of friends who own both the Meitner and the APL, plus the same speakers as I do, and am really familiar with their amps and systems. As folks will testify, - the two players are closer than close.
If you want to take this discussion off line, I would love to ship you the SHM CD of Aja, - as I really would love to know your thoughts....
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Post by mcintosh September 10, 2010 (136 of 152)
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Compare it to Madman or Yellow Brick Road SACD and tell which one is better. You can buy Captain Fantastic from Amazon for $17.00
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Post by jcssnet September 17, 2010 (137 of 152)
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Hello Everyone, new to the group and long time steely dan fan. I too was rather diappointed with the sound of this SACD when it first arrived. My wife and I have friday evening listening sessions so we were looking forward to listening to this SACD. The first thing that struck me was the compressed sound, I thought back to my long mothballed aja album and remember it to have a slightly wider soundstage and just a bit more air around the instruments. So it was that I decided to crank up the sound to about 98 db. Wow, what a difference, the everything that I remember the old album to be suddenly rushed back. voices gained a three dimensional quality, you can even detect a slight lisp in Fagan's voice. There appeared to be little if any silibance through out the sacd. Is it worth the 58.00 I paid, only if you're a steely dan fan and have the equipment with the added dynamics to fully take adavantage of the sound. I have the Gaucho DVD-A and find that to be a more satisfying recording. Now, if they can only get Supertramp on SACD.
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airegin said:
I have Aja SHM CD UICY-93520, and the new UIGY-9026 Aja SHM SACD.
Others have commented on the sound, I'm commenting on the disc packaging as some have praised it:
The UICY-93520 SHM CD ... is contained in a protective plastic sleeve within a standard single fold CD case with the disc art a copy of the original LP label art, both case and notes are finished in a nice protective gloss coating. ...
The new SHM/SACD Aja ... disc is placed within a plastic sleeve, within a card stock sleeve, within the double-fold packaging. ... No glossy protecting finish here as with the older Japanese packaging - just plain printed thin card stock. No original label art as with the older Japanese SHM CD ...
If it's not too much hassle perhaps you could post a picture of the two packagings side by side here?
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Post by terence September 24, 2010 (139 of 152)
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following up on comments made by others earlier in this thread, i bought the Cisco vinyl remastering of this.
i am sorry (as an SACD fan and a fan of this forum!) to say that it knocks pretty much any stereo SACD i've ever heard into a cocked hat. it's just fantastic.
so thanks to those above who mentioned it....
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Post by rammiepie September 24, 2010 (140 of 152)
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terence said:
following up on comments made by others earlier in this thread, i bought the Cisco vinyl remastering of this.
i am sorry (as an SACD fan and a fan of this forum!) to say that it knocks pretty much any stereo SACD i've ever heard into a cocked hat. it's just fantastic.
so thanks to those above who mentioned it....
Terence, there are so many variables in vinyl playback (choice of arm/cartridge combinations, etc) as there is in SACD stereo playback. I just read a review of a $60,000 phono step~up transformer which supposedly blows the socks off any previous step~up transformer on the market. To elicit proper SACD playback, especially stereo, my research tells me that decent SACD stereo playback starts at around $6,000 (hardly state of the art) and extends up to $80,000 (dCs three box SACD player). NO Universal player I know of has state of the art SACD stereo playback, unfortunately).
Imagine how your Cisco vinyl version of AJA would sound in tandem with a 60 grand step up phono transformer? It certainly boggles the mind!
In the meantime, back to reality........
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