Thread: Problems with my Krell SACD Standard player

Posts: 98
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Post by Oakland June 28, 2011 (71 of 98)
stvnharr said:

Also, you state above that by July 2005 the problem was well known, well, why didn't you know about it if it was so well known?

The poster may have meant that the problem was "well-known" to the manufacturer...not necessarily to the consumer. That I can sympathize with because the exact same thing happened to me with an expensive Sony pro video camera. Sony *knew* about a latent defect that required an expensive repair to the tape transport even before they released the otherwise stellar camera (DSR 500). A Sony Tech released to me a Service Bulletin that had been sent out to the service centers clearly spelling out the problem almost at the time of the camera's release. The date of the bulletin confirmed their *prior* knowledge of the problem.

This happens all the time. Often by the time the consumer finds about a defect the manufacturer (or drug company or whatever) is well aware of what is going on. And they will not issue a recall unless forced to. To Sony's credit they did respond to my plea and later on, in fact, repaired failures beyond the normal warranty period at no charge to the consumer for a specified time for that transport problem.

Robert C. Lang

Post by stvnharr June 28, 2011 (72 of 98)
Oakland said:

The poster may have meant that the problem was "well-known" to the manufacturer...not necessarily to the consumer.

Robert,
My post was over a year ago. You are quite late in responding.
Your issues with your video camera are irrelevant.
If I, strictly a reader of the same various forums that you also frequent, knew about the Philips transport issues, the issue was "known". Ignorance is rarely a good excuse.

Post by Osbert Parsley June 29, 2011 (73 of 98)
Disbeliever said:

I have only just noticed this Krell from Hell posting. I could never understand why anyone would buy very much overpriced poor sounding Krell product.

I agree, but I was an innocent about SACD when I bought it. It is still not working properly: having been sent back to Krell in the USA and cured of its failure to read discs (almost free of charge), it now emits a constant high-pitched whine (like a cathode ray television but much louder) when it is turned on - slightly louder when it starts playing a disc. It has been back in the shop in Australia for a few weeks to try to fix this, but no luck yet.

And, I agree, the quality of the machine overall leaves a lot to be desired. It is all hard, crystalline, harsh sound in the interest of clarity and detail but loses naturalness and the softer-edged qualities of the instruments in striving for this. It also makes loud whirring and grinding sounds throughout some of my RBCDs. Being told this is common with this model and is probably because the disc being played might not be manufactured with a properly centred spindle hole is no comfort when even considerably cheaper machines can handle exactly the same discs without any problems and noises.

Having seen and heard the considerably cheaper Oppo BD-95, with its smoother physical operation (almost silent opening and closing drawer, quiet and unlaboured reading of a disc when loaded, convenient controls) and as clear but warmer and less fatiguing sound, I can only regret being lumbered with this machine.

Post by DdraigGoch June 30, 2011 (74 of 98)
Hi Osbert

I have not read all of this thread, but I too have an SACD standard, and have gone through similar problems to you. I now have the Mark III, after having first the mark II and then another mark III.

For me, there are two important things to remember if you want the player to read discs correctly:

1) When not using the player, leave it in standby mode, do not leave it turned on.

I have found that if you leave the player continuously on, loud random noise spikes can be generated, which only seem to disappear once the player has been switched off for a while and has cooled down. This fault only appeared while playing SACD, not CD. It may be a function of where my player is situated and how well ventilated it is, I don't know for sure.

2) Use a dry system lens cleaning disc at least once a month.

I have also found that if you don't clean the lens, discs that used to read first time take several attempts to read. Cleaning the lens appears to solve this problem.

My comments apply at least to the Mark III, I don't know about the earlier models.

By doing these two things, I believe I have managed to "tame" the wild SACD Standard. When the player works, I would say that the sound is without peer in my experience. It's a shame to give in and chuck it away!

I hope this will help you.

Post by stvnharr June 30, 2011 (75 of 98)
Osbert,
Seeing as how I responded a few times well over a year ago in your enquiries about this player, it is nice to know that there has been some kind of resolution attempted by the proper parties, manufacturer and dealer. But then, from what you write, all is still not perfect and that is a pity. I would hope that the player issues eventually get resolved.
Always tough to have an expensive lemon.

Post by Osbert Parsley July 4, 2011 (76 of 98)
DdraigGoch said:

Hi Osbert

I have not read all of this thread, but I too have an SACD standard, and have gone through similar problems to you. I now have the Mark III, after having first the mark II and then another mark III.

For me, there are two important things to remember if you want the player to read discs correctly:

1) When not using the player, leave it in standby mode, do not leave it turned on.

I have found that if you leave the player continuously on, loud random noise spikes can be generated, which only seem to disappear once the player has been switched off for a while and has cooled down. This fault only appeared while playing SACD, not CD. It may be a function of where my player is situated and how well ventilated it is, I don't know for sure.

2) Use a dry system lens cleaning disc at least once a month.

DdraigGoch,

Mine is still a Mark I.

There are no tracking or reading problems any more, just a high-pitched whistling sound that can just be heard behind the music and is surprisingly loud when the music is not playing. Obviously not acceptable for such a machine.

I always leave my player in standby mode when not using it.

I have never used a lens cleaning system. Maybe it is something we should all be using at least one every month or so with our SACD players of any brand.

However, having had a Marantz on loan for a while and also used an Oppo BDP 95, I feel the Krell sounds too harsh and fatiguing and, ultimately, unnatural. The Marantz is a little duller sounding and not ideal (it also has a lot of difficulty tracking discs, both RBCD and SACD). The Krell, however, lacks warmth. The Oppos BDP 95 has the clarity of the Krell without the hardness. Perhaps the Mark III sounds warmer and more natural, but I was not going to pay the extra AU$4,000 or so the distributor was offering me for an upgrade to the Mark III when everyone was still working out what to do with my Mark I before it was sent back to the USA.

When the Australian repairer fixes the whistling sound (I am sure he will be able to eventually), I think my SACD Standard will be going on E-Bay - one of the few SACD Standards offered there without the tracking and reading problems!!

Post by DSD July 4, 2011 (77 of 98)
Osbert Parsley said:

I have never used a lens cleaning system. Maybe it is something we should all be using at least one every month or so with our SACD players of any brand.

My Yamaha SACD player mutes towards the end of a disc when the lens is dirty, my older Sony and Xindak SACD players skipped when dirty.

So if muting occurs I put in my lens cleaner and my player plays discs perfectly for a month or so until the lens needs cleaning again.

I also run the demagnetizing sweep and fade from my XLO/Reference Recordings Test and Burn-In CD whenever my music starts to sound flat and lifeless and that really perks it up. Also a few times a year I rerun the System Burn-In on all inputs.

Post by Disbeliever July 4, 2011 (78 of 98)
DSD said:

My Yamaha SACD player mutes towards the end of a disc when the lens is dirty, my older Sony and Xindak SACD players skipped when dirty.

So if I muting occurs I put in my lens cleaner and my player plays discs perfectly for a month or so until the lens needs cleaning again.

I also run the demagnetizing sweep and fade from my XLO/Reference Recordings Test and Burn-In CD whenever my music starts to sound flat and lifeless and that really perks it up. Also a few times a year I rerun the System Burn-In on all inputs.

My Marantz CD94 (modified) never missed a beat never cleaned the lens, used for 22 years , only repair required was a new set of belts. The new owner is very happy with the player. Sony XA5400ES 2 & half years No Lens Clean required.

Post by hiredfox July 5, 2011 (79 of 98)
Disbeliever said:

My Marantz CD94 (modified) never missed a beat never cleaned the lens, used for 22 years , only repair required was a new set of belts. The new owner is very happy with the player. Sony XA5400ES 2 & half years No Lens Clean required.

Not unusual unless one is in the habit of spreading marmalade on each disc to bring added sweetness, as some are wont to do.

The official line from manufacturers is 'maintenance free'; the propriety contraptions sold to 'clean lenses' - that looks like a CD with a few tufts of PTFE sticking up to abraid the lens - does far more harm than good. One should worry more about bearing wear and rumble and the drying out of electrolytics.

Post by DdraigGoch July 5, 2011 (80 of 98)
Osbert,

I sometimes also get that whistling sound you mention; only occasionally does it become loud enough to really notice it. It depends on the actual disc being played, and appears to be a resonance mode that depends on the speed the disc is rotating at the time - it comes and goes. It can be a problem when the music is quiet - I listen to classical music so it is sometimes a bit of an issue.
That said, I don't find the Krell mark III harsh, just extremely transparent. Now, there are four different DSD filters (or DACs). If you are finding that a recording sounds a little hard, try using filter 3 or 4, which sound rather warmer than filter 1.It also depends on what amplification you are using. I use a valve power amplifier, which has a lovely warm sound anyway, so I'm sure that helps.

Let me know if and how the whistling sound can be cured.

Good luck

Chris (aka DdraigGoch)

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