Post by krisjan February 10, 2010 (1 of 23)
|
|
Really looking forward to this one. Is "7 & 8" the new "8 and 9"? Why not just use the coventional numbering?
|
|
|
Post by Cherubino February 10, 2010 (2 of 23)
|
|
krisjan said:
Really looking forward to this one. Is "7 & 8" the new "8 and 9"? Why not just use the coventional numbering?
There's a program note from the New York Philharmonic archives which may be of interest:
http://nyphil.org/programNotes/Schubert_Unfinished_Symphony.pdf
The "By the Numbers" sidebar discusses the numbering of these symphonies.
I expect Robert will answer, why not the conventional numbering?
|
|
|
|
|
|
krisjan said:
Really looking forward to this one. Is "7 & 8" the new "8 and 9"? Why not just use the coventional numbering?
It is the 'old' "8 & 9"! The convention is to become 7 & 8 (in Europe at least). Remember conventions can change over time...
|
|
|
Post by krisjan February 10, 2010 (4 of 23)
|
|
I was being a bit facetious with my post. I am aware of the latest thinking on this but it is still confusing at times. For example, there have been attempts by various people (Weingartner and Neubold for two) to reconstruct Schubert's Symphony No.7 based on the limited material that Schubert left behind. A potential buyer of the SACD might see it listed on a web site as Syms 7 & 8 and could (wrongly as it turns out) assume that it is such a recreation of No.7 coupled with the unfinished Sym (the "old" 8). He would instead get a disc with the unfinished and the Great C major. Zeus did a nice thing here by including the original numberings to reduce confusion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
"No one in the art world (well, at least I hope no one in the art world) would even remotely consider crazy-gluing arms back on Venus de Milo or rebuilding the Parthenon to create a heck of a shopping mall, but over the past half-century the craze has been if the composer left it unfinished, let’s help the poor guy out and finish it for him. Mahler’s 10th Symphony, Berg’s Lulu , Beethoven’s 10th, Ives’s Universe Symphony , and of course that botch job known as Schubert’s “finished” unfinished symphony, have all undergone mild to radical note surgery to replace missing limbs—er, acts or movements. Mendelssohn's 3rd Piano Concerto is perhaps the biggest Frankenstein monster produced since the Beethoven 10th because only a few bars of the third movement are even by Mendelssohn!" - www.fanfaremag.com
Frankenstein monster doesn't count!
|
|
|
Post by seth February 10, 2010 (6 of 23)
|
|
sunnydaler said:
"No one in the art world (well, at least I hope no one in the art world) would even remotely consider crazy-gluing arms back on Venus de Milo or rebuilding the Parthenon to create a heck of a shopping mall, but over the past half-century the craze has been if the composer left it unfinished, let’s help the poor guy out and finish it for him. Mahler’s 10th Symphony, Berg’s Lulu , Beethoven’s 10th, Ives’s Universe Symphony , and of course that botch job known as Schubert’s “finished” unfinished symphony, have all undergone mild to radical note surgery to replace missing limbs—er, acts or movements. Mendelssohn's 3rd Piano Concerto is perhaps the biggest Frankenstein monster produced since the Beethoven 10th because only a few bars of the third movement are even by Mendelssohn!" - www.fanfaremag.com
Frankenstein monster doesn't count!
To defend the Mahler 10, Cooke's intention was to fill in just enough holes so that listeners could hear what Mahler had written before he died -- that's why he always called it a "performing version."
Now the "completed" version I think are all over orchestrated and banal.
Let's also not forget that the Mozart Requiem is a completion and no one really complains about that. And there's other music out there that's widely performed, completed by someone else, and no one says anything about it.
|
|
|
Post by bissie February 10, 2010 (7 of 23)
|
|
Polly Nomial said:
It is the 'old' "8 & 9"! The convention is to become 7 & 8 (in Europe at least). Remember conventions can change over time...
Polly is right. The "Unfinished" and the Great C major, with all the repeats.
Robert
|
|
|
Post by TerraEpon February 10, 2010 (8 of 23)
|
|
I wouldn't think both symphonies with all the repeats could even fit on a single disc.
|
|
|
Post by bissie February 11, 2010 (9 of 23)
|
|
TerraEpon said:
I wouldn't think both symphonies with all the repeats could even fit on a single disc.
The disc TT is 79'17 - not a BIS record by any means, but on the generous side nevertheless.
Soon you'll see the Brahms Cello Sonatas (incl. the transcription of the Violin Sonata in G, which we will NOT call Brahms's Cello Sonata No 3 :-) ) at 82'30.
(advert) We try to combine quality with quantity at CD prices (end advert)
Robert
|
|
|
Post by hiredfox February 11, 2010 (10 of 23)
|
|
krisjan said:
Really looking forward to this one. Is "7 & 8" the new "8 and 9"? Why not just use the coventional numbering?
Two conventions but these days it's normal to revert to the 7/8 designation as per Jonathan Nott so don't quite know why BIS have gone backwards. It's all to do with missing numbers... but the lad only lasted 35 years so who knows what he had in mind?
|
|
