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Hello all,
Does anyone know if or when Universal will start to re-master any of the old analog Solti/CSO or Solti/London recordings??? (Can we say Wagner operas, Mahler, Bruckner, etc). I checked my extensive CD library and there are MANY recordings (ADRM) that would make excellent remasters.
I see Universal releasing so many SACDs with von Karajan, Bohm, etc, yet nothing (except some releases from Universal Japan) with Solti from Universal North America.
Jee whiz, Sir Georg only won 37 Grammys, so why is his prodigious catalog being ignored everywhere except Japan???
Just curious...
Cheers,
Mark W.
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Post by tream February 5, 2005 (2 of 19)
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mwagner1962 said:
Hello all,
Does anyone know if or when Universal will start to re-master any of the old analog Solti/CSO or Solti/London recordings??? (Can we say Wagner operas, Mahler, Bruckner, etc). I checked my extensive CD library and there are MANY recordings (ADRM) that would make excellent remasters.
I see Universal releasing so many SACDs with von Karajan, Bohm, etc, yet nothing (except some releases from Universal Japan) with Solti from Universal North America.
Jee whiz, Sir Georg only won 37 Grammys, so why is his prodigious catalog being ignored everywhere except Japan???
Just curious...
Cheers,
Mark W.
Interesting post. I think performers, like performing styles and even composers, go in and out of fashion. After a musical performer's death they may be an initial flood of tributes, then the performer may go into eclipse for awhile before rediscovery. There was a reaction like this even with a performer like Karajan-during his life, at least according to Gramophone, he could do no wrong. Perceptions of his work turned negative for a time after his death, and only now are we having a realistic evaluation of his recorded legacy. (Lots of peaks and valleys).
I think Solti is out of fashion these days, except for perhaps his Ring. Even there, revisionists are dissing his conducting and complaining about the supposed lack of line, etc., which, if you actually listen, is not true. Almost no one views his Mahler as successful these days, but each release was eagerly awaited during his lifetime and usually went to the top of the critical lists.
For my ear, Solti was hugely successful in Mozart (great recordings of the operas), Schumann (his recordings of the symphonies were a fresh treat after the Karajan recordings), Wagner, Verdi,R. Strauss, Bartok and Mahler. His Beethoven was not inconsequential, nor his Berlioz. In opera, he worked consistently with the best singers of his time, without pushing them into unsuitable roles, a la Karajan. The notable exception was Vickers, who refused to work with Solti, preferring Karajan-too bad, because I think Vickers would have found a better foil in Solti. Certainly the one recording they did together, Aida, is a classic.
At some point the pendulum will swing back and we'll remember that Solti was a lot more than his Ring, and the Mahler 8.
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Post by seth February 5, 2005 (3 of 19)
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tream said:
I think Solti is out of fashion these days, except for perhaps his Ring. Even there, revisionists are dissing his conducting and complaining about the supposed lack of line, etc., which, if you actually listen, is not true. Almost no one views his Mahler as successful these days, but each release was eagerly awaited during his lifetime and usually went to the top of the critical lists.
Agreed. Most of his Chicago recordings strike me as big and loud, and nothing else.
So what if he won 37 Gammys? Out of all the award shows, it is by far the most pathetic one. Who hasn't won at least a dozen Grammys? Even Céline Dion has taken home quite a few.
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Post by Daland February 7, 2005 (4 of 19)
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seth said:
Agreed. Most of his Chicago recordings strike me as big and loud, and nothing else.
So what if he won 37 Gammys? Out of all the award shows, it is by far the most pathetic one. Who hasn't won at least a dozen Grammys? Even Céline Dion has taken home quite a few.
This assessment is quite unfair. Solti was one of the great maestros of the 20th century. As a Wagner and Strauss conductor he was unmatched in his day, and he was also a notable interpreter of Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler and Bartok. Many of his readings (e.g. of Beethoven's Pastoral or Schubert's Great C major symphony, even Strauss's Alpine Symphony) can hardly be described as "big and loud". But he brought a sense of forward momentum to the works he conducted which most conductors of our day(with a few exceptions such as Abbado or Gardiner) are incapable of generating.
His accounts of Bruckner lacked the spirituality of, say, Furtwängler, but they were at least exciting and revealed a command of the long line.
Here is a small selection of my favourite Solti recordings, which I hope will appear on SACD one day:
Schubert, Symphony No.9 in C major, VPO
Strauss, Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, CSO
Beethoven, Piano Concertos, Ashkenazy, CSO
Wagner, Ring des Nibelungen, Parsifal, Lohengrin, VPO
Wagner, Overtures and Preludes, VPO
Strauss, Elektra, Salome, Rosenkavalier, Frau ohne Schatten, VPO
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Post by Johnno February 7, 2005 (5 of 19)
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Daland said:
This assessment is quite unfair. Solti was one of the great maestros of the 20th century. As a Wagner and Strauss conductor he was unmatched in his day, and he was also a notable interpreter of Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler and Bartok. Many of his readings (e.g. of Beethoven's Pastoral or Schubert's Great C major symphony, even Strauss's Alpine Symphony) can hardly be described as "big and loud". But he brought a sense of forward momentum to the works he conducted which most conductors of our day(with a few exceptions such as Abbado or Gardiner) are incapable of generating.
His accounts of Bruckner lacked the spirituality of, say, Furtwängler, but they were at least exciting and revealed a command of the long line.
Here is a small selection of my favourite Solti recordings, which I hope will appear on SACD one day:
Schubert, Symphony No.9 in C major, VPO
Strauss, Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, CSO
Beethoven, Piano Concertos, Ashkenazy, CSO
Wagner, Ring des Nibelungen, Parsifal, Lohengrin, VPO
Wagner, Overtures and Preludes, VPO
Strauss, Elektra, Salome, Rosenkavalier, Frau ohne Schatten, VPO
I agree with you entirely. He brought a breath of fresh air to much of what he did and there was an edge of seat excitement about it (a lot like Antal Dorati -- another Hungarian!). I still love his "Ring" cycle and both "Salome" and "Elektra". I also, like you, rate his Schubert "Great" very highly. That "Romantic Russia" LSO disc is a sizzler too. I do prefer the Mahler he recorded with the LSO (1, 2 and 9 -- never heard his Concertgebouw 4th))to that recorded in Chicago -- although the 8th is magnificent -- and have continually been disappointed that the marvellous ninth he made with the London orchestra never appeared on CD (if it did, I missed it!)
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Post by brenda February 7, 2005 (6 of 19)
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seth said:Most of his Chicago recordings strike me as big and loud, and nothing else.
More than a little unfair, seth, especially as tream's post, to which you were replying was both fair and favourable to Sir Georg and his legacy. I also suspect that perhaps you haven't heard some of the more "unexpected" Solti repertoire, and I urge you to do so.
To my ears, his Figaro is one of the most lustrous and sparkling and witty opera recordings of all time, and his Zauberflote not far behind. His Cosi is light and fast without being in anyway fierce. He also recorded a Messiah that had as much pace and energy as any period performance and would have been just about perfect had it not been for the contralto Decca lumbered him with. And his Schubert 9th, - as others have said, simply Great. His Wagner Ring ? - still the stuff of legends.
He may not have hit every nail squarely on the head, and his Beethoven and Mahler could be variable (but whose isn't????), though at their best, as in the Mahler 8, they are sensational. To have made wonderful recordings in opera, oratorio, symphonies and even, as a pianist, in fine chamber music performances (try his Bartok and Brahms) is an achievement few can match. I urge you to listen to some of the performances I've mentioned, and I'd love to hear them all over again in SACD.
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Post by seth February 7, 2005 (7 of 19)
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Daland said:
This assessment is quite unfair. Solti was one of the great maestros of the 20th century. As a Wagner and Strauss conductor he was unmatched in his day, and he was also a notable interpreter of Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler and Bartok. Many of his readings (e.g. of Beethoven's Pastoral or Schubert's Great C major symphony, even Strauss's Alpine Symphony) can hardly be described as "big and loud". But he brought a sense of forward momentum to the works he conducted which most conductors of our day(with a few exceptions such as Abbado or Gardiner) are incapable of generating.
His accounts of Bruckner lacked the spirituality of, say, Furtwängler, but they were at least exciting and revealed a command of the long line.
Here is a small selection of my favourite Solti recordings, which I hope will appear on SACD one day:
Schubert, Symphony No.9 in C major, VPO
Strauss, Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, CSO
Beethoven, Piano Concertos, Ashkenazy, CSO
Wagner, Ring des Nibelungen, Parsifal, Lohengrin, VPO
Wagner, Overtures and Preludes, VPO
Strauss, Elektra, Salome, Rosenkavalier, Frau ohne Schatten, VPO
Read my post. I was talking mostly about his Chicago recordings.
I have the Piano Concertos with Ashkenazy and find it to be a rather dull set. With the exception of the 4th, everyone seems to be on a different page. The classic Szell/Fleisher recordings are far superior.
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Post by tream February 8, 2005 (8 of 19)
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seth said:
Read my post. I was talking mostly about his Chicago recordings.
I have the Piano Concertos with Ashkenazy and find it to be a rather dull set. With the exception of the 4th, everyone seems to be on a different page. The classic Szell/Fleisher recordings are far superior.
I do think Seth is "guilty of post hi-jacking".....although the way I worded it left the opening, so it was fair game. My view of Solti is favorable, including his work in Chicago-one of the best concerts I had the privilege of attending was an early 70's Mozart 41/Mahler 5 Solti/CSO on tour. Unbelievable. I've owned the piano concertos for many years, and find it to be a very good set, underrated these days. My favorite is Fleisher/Szell-bingo on that, but I don't find Ashkenazy and Solti dull.
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Post by Castor February 9, 2005 (9 of 19)
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seth said:
Agreed. Most of his Chicago recordings strike me as big and loud, and nothing else.
So what if he won 37 Gammys? Out of all the award shows, it is by far the most pathetic one. Who hasn't won at least a dozen Grammys? Even Céline Dion has taken home quite a few.
Seth,
You may have overstated your case a little, but I find myself in agreement with you in regard to many of Solti's CSO recordings.
Solti's best recordings were made with the VPO and LSO. For example, His Bartok with the CSO is totally outclassed by the earlier LSO versions (sadly his LSO version of Music for Strngs/Perc./Celesta has never appeared on CD).
The opera recordings he made with the CSO are generally disappointing (Wagner Fliegende Holländer,Meistersinger, Verdi Otello).
The CSO Mahler 1,2,4, and 9 also never matched his earlier versions.
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Post by kdelkins February 25, 2005 (10 of 19)
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Castor said:
Seth,
You may have overstated your case a little, but I find myself in agreement with you in regard to many of Solti's CSO recordings.
Solti's best recordings were made with the VPO and LSO. For example, His Bartok with the CSO is totally outclassed by the earlier LSO versions (sadly his LSO version of Music for Strngs/Perc./Celesta has never appeared on CD).
The opera recordings he made with the CSO are generally disappointing (Wagner Fliegende Holländer,Meistersinger, Verdi Otello).
The CSO Mahler 1,2,4, and 9 also never matched his earlier versions.
Solti is one of the few conductors that could just plain get it wrong. Buying a solti disc can be a real gamble. For instance his early digital recording of Wagner orchestral music in Vienna was horrible, making one wonder whether this was the same person who had such a triumph with the a same forces and material 20 years earlier. That said, when he got it right it was oh so right, a master technician at orchestral sonority and the ability to draw the orchestal line while still maintaining a good overall body to the sound. Admittedly I am referring mostly to his LSO and VPO recordings, and these orchestras could probably play this well with mickey mouse in charge. But he could give even these great orchestras a little bite to the string tone, or a snap to the rythmn. The hall marks of a solti recording is rythmic integrity, orchestral virtuosity, and a pulse beating beneath the music. He may have lost the contour of the melody and could be afraid to linger, but this could be made up for in the structure he brought out.
The whole Chicago period and the Grammy obsession is a bit of a mystery to me. I suppose it was a case of the power of personality and the benefits of being a cult figure. On the whole, I am not very familiar with these recordings since I bought a couple and that was enough for me, too much of a gamble, too extreme, and taking what was once a driven style in London and making it simply manic and hurried, and more often than not, just angry. Classical music, though suffers from an over reliance on reputation and it is often difficult to give an artistic partnership a fair assessmsnt after a few bad recordings. There may be some pearls here but I have not found them yet.
In any case Solti will always be to me the brilliant young conductor who attained cult status at the LSO in the 60s or the wise gentle old man who made peace with his maker and did so many wonderful things in the post Chicago period. And with these triumphs in mind he must truly be considered one of the centuries greatest conductors. Never boring, often brilliant.
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