SA-CD.net - Lack of Bass

Post by impalaboy May 6, 2009 (1 of 14)

I am new to the SACD format, although very familiar with the DVD-Audio format (via DVD Video player).

I have acquired about 20 SACD discs over the years and finally got an SACD player.

My experience with the multi-channel discs has been as expected. However, the stereo-only discs seem to severely lack bass. The player is connected via the 6 RCA outputs of the player, and the player is set to small speakers (which I have).
Do I need to connect the regular RCA left & right channels to the receiver for playing stereo-only discs or should I be able to play them through the multi-channel connections?

Any other suggestions on why the bass is so lacking?

Thanks in advance and I am looking forward to spending some time on this board reading posts and learning.

-Terry

www.3inchcd.com

Post by Cherubino May 6, 2009 (2 of 14)

impalaboy said:

I am new to the SACD format, although very familiar with the DVD-Audio format (via DVD Video player).

I have acquired about 20 SACD discs over the years and finally got an SACD player.

My experience with the multi-channel discs has been as expected. However, the stereo-only discs seem to severely lack bass. The player is connected via the 6 RCA outputs of the player, and the player is set to small speakers (which I have).
Do I need to connect the regular RCA left & right channels to the receiver for playing stereo-only discs or should I be able to play them through the multi-channel connections?

Any other suggestions on why the bass is so lacking?

Thanks in advance and I am looking forward to spending some time on this board reading posts and learning.

-Terry

www.3inchcd.com

Lack of bass is not a characteristic of 2-channel SACD playback. I'm sure one of the technical wizards that post here will be able to help you if there's something wrong with your connections. Small speakers, of course, may in fact be the source of the problem. Good luck.

Post by impalaboy May 6, 2009 (3 of 14)

Cherubino said:

Lack of bass is not a characteristic of 2-channel SACD playback. I'm sure one of the technical wizards that post here will be able to help you if there's something wrong with your connections. Small speakers, of course, may in fact be the source of the problem. Good luck.

I should have been more specific on that one. I have a JBL speaker system that consists of 4 identical small speakers and a center channel speaker. Plus the JBL subwoofer.

There is a setting in the SACD player for speaker size which was set to large speakers. After my no-bass experiece, I changed to small speakers with no difference in the amount of bass.

Multi-channel discs have plenty of bass.

The stereo-only discs I listened to were Meat Loaf "Bat Out of Hell", Journey's Greatest Hits and one other one (can't remember right now).
I haven't read many good reviews about "Bat Out of Hell" but no one seemed to complain about the lack of bass.

Post by Kal Rubinson May 6, 2009 (4 of 14)

impalaboy said:

I should have been more specific on that one. I have a JBL speaker system that consists of 4 identical small speakers and a center channel speaker. Plus the JBL subwoofer.

There is a setting in the SACD player for speaker size which was set to large speakers. After my no-bass experiece, I changed to small speakers with no difference in the amount of bass.

Multi-channel discs have plenty of bass.

The stereo-only discs I listened to were Meat Loaf "Bat Out of Hell", Journey's Greatest Hits and one other one (can't remember right now).
I haven't read many good reviews about "Bat Out of Hell" but no one seemed to complain about the lack of bass.

The reason for this is that your use of the multichannel analog inputs for stereo is, somehow, bypassing the bass management in the receiver and the player. Can you tell us exactly what player and receiver you are using?

Kal

Post by rammiepie May 6, 2009 (5 of 14)

impalaboy said:

I am new to the SACD format, although very familiar with the DVD-Audio format (via DVD Video player).

I have acquired about 20 SACD discs over the years and finally got an SACD player.

My experience with the multi-channel discs has been as expected. However, the stereo-only discs seem to severely lack bass. The player is connected via the 6 RCA outputs of the player, and the player is set to small speakers (which I have).
Do I need to connect the regular RCA left & right channels to the receiver for playing stereo-only discs or should I be able to play them through the multi-channel connections?

Any other suggestions on why the bass is so lacking?

Thanks in advance and I am looking forward to spending some time on this board reading posts and learning.

-Terry

www.3inchcd.com

when playing stereo sacds, use the stereo outputs and the DSP mode on your system for surround. There is NO bass channel when outputting stereo through 5.1 analogue outputs like there is NO center channel when playing 4.0 multi-channel.

Post by impalaboy May 6, 2009 (6 of 14)

rammiepie said:

when playing stereo sacds, use the stereo outputs and the DSP mode on your system for surround. There is NO bass channel when outputting stereo through 5.1 analogue outputs like there is NO center channel when playing 4.0 multi-channel.

I will try the stereo outputs and give that a shot. It's a bummer that I would have to use 2 separate inputs on my receiver for the SACD player but if that's how it works...

Thanks again for everyone's help.

By the way, the player is a Sony DVP-NC650V and the receiver is a Sony STR-DE 485.

Post by Kal Rubinson May 7, 2009 (7 of 14)

impalaboy said:

I will try the stereo outputs and give that a shot. It's a bummer that I would have to use 2 separate inputs on my receiver for the SACD player but if that's how it works...

Thanks again for everyone's help.

By the way, the player is a Sony DVP-NC650V and the receiver is a Sony STR-DE 485.

When I get a little time, I will look at the user's manuals for those two but Sonys, in general, are a little 'different' in how they do things.

Kal

Post by jakeroux May 7, 2009 (8 of 14)

I'm a little short on specifics here, but I believe in many cases either the disc player or the amp unit is defaulted or otherwise set to boost the base channel on DVD playback greater than it does on other types of discs. I think that was the case on my Oppo/Denon combination, but it's been a while since I calibrated.

In my case, it was not a stereo vs. MCH issue, but rather a DVD vs. SACD or CD issue causing the decrease in bass response on SACDs & CDs. Do you notice a similar lack of bass on standard CDs? If so, you probably just need to look at tweaking your channel settings (either on your playback unit or your amp unit) rather than your connections.

As to yourt specific discs, I've only listened to Bat Out of Hell, and as I recall, the edition which contained the MCH mix had a much better overall sound and strength of signal than did the stereo only version, so it may also be that just aren't getting much bass from the disc itself.

Good luck.

_________

Edit - after having re-read your post after I posted my response , I see where you do seem to be getting adequate bass on MCH SACDs, so perhaps a big "Never Mind" is in order regarding my advice to tweak your channel settings to address the issue.

Post by Kal Rubinson May 7, 2009 (9 of 14)

I scanned the manuals and now I am more confused than ever. The player cannot set speaker distances but it can set levels for SACD. The AVR cannot set levels for the analog MCH input but it seems to be able to set distances. Both imply that they can do bass management but I suspect that the AVR may not. I would set the bass management (SMALL, Yes to Woofer) in the player and leave the similar settings on the AVR as LARGE and Yes. Just a stab since the AVR manual never really tells us anything explicitly about what it does with the MultiChannel In.

Kal

Post by impalaboy May 8, 2009 (10 of 14)

Kal Rubinson said:

I scanned the manuals and now I am more confused than ever. The player cannot set speaker distances but it can set levels for SACD. The AVR cannot set levels for the analog MCH input but it seems to be able to set distances. Both imply that they can do bass management but I suspect that the AVR may not. I would set the bass management (SMALL, Yes to Woofer) in the player and leave the similar settings on the AVR as LARGE and Yes. Just a stab since the AVR manual never really tells us anything explicitly about what it does with the MultiChannel In.

Kal

Thanks for your input on this matter. Now I'll work on the output.